Self-Loading Western Rattler .357 Blast of Air to the Eye

[Ezana4CE]

Have any Western Airguns Rattler owners experienced a blast of air to their shooting eye upon a shot? I’m experiencing this and it’s frustrating. I caused me to close my eye reflexively. I don’t like doing this. Even with safety glasses the air shoots beneath the lenses. Anyone have an ideas on how to stop this?

Below is a recent photo for reference so that you all can see how and where my scope is mounted. The eye box is comfortable for me with the scope mounted like this.

 

[c.wallace_06]

EZ this is about barrel swap but your answer to your question is just before the end of this video

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[Ezana4CE]

@c.wallace_06 I’ll check it out. If this is the video with the old metal shroud, I’ve seen it but I ca watch it again for that last bit of info. The method used here doesn’t work to remove the barrel on the Rattler with the carbon fiber shroud. The barrel and shroud do not come off together as one unit once those two screw are loosened on my Rattler. The shroud just spins. They need to update the video or release a new one for people with newer Rattlers. If I remember correctly Don suggests using a finger nail to space the barrel so it’s not right up on the magazine. If that’s what you’re referring to, my issue there is that I’m already dealing with my mag seizing in cooler temps. I already suspect that the barrel is too close to the magazine. The remedy suggested was to back the barrel out some. If I do that and I already am experiencing a blast of air to the eye, I’m not sure how to remedy both issues.

 

[c.wallace_06]

@c.wallace_06 I’ll check it out. If this is the video with the old metal shroud, I’ve seen it but I ca watch it again for that last bit of info. The method used here doesn’t work to removed the barrel on the Rattler with the carbon fiber shroud. The barrel and shroud do not come off together as one unit once those two screw are loosened on my Rattler. The shroud just spins. They need to update the video or release a new one for people with newer Rattlers. If I remember correctly Don suggests using a finger nail to space the barrel so it’s not right up on the magazine. If that’s what you’re referring to, my issue there is that I’m already dealing with my mag seizing in cooler temps. I already suspect that the barrel is too close to the magazine. The remedy suggested was to back the barrel out some. If I do that and I already am experiencing a blast of air to the eye, I’m not sure how to remedy both issues.

I see.. yes, I was thinking it was a headspace problem, but with what you just described you might have to send in for some warranty work.
I wish you well sorry I wasn’t more help

 

[Ezana4CE]

I see.. yes, I was thinking it was a headspace problem, but with what you just described you might have to send in for some warranty work.
I wish you well sorry I wasn’t more help

@c.wallace_06 No worries. I’ll continue to shoot it until I figure something out. I bought it used so there’s no warranty. I haven’t messed with much of anything other than the regular and power wheel. so at least I know it will shoot for now. I really want to mount another scope.

 

[c.wallace_06]

@c.wallace_06 No worries. I’ll continue to shoot it until I figure something out. I bought it used so there’s no warranty. I haven’t messed with much of anything other than the regular and power wheel. so at least I know it will shoot for now. I really want to mount another scope.

I own several of the rattlers and Sidewinders bought them new. When I seen your post, it reminded me of the 30 caliber that I bought. And from the factory the brackets that hold the barrel from rotating was not tightened all the way down so over a few shots the barrel started rubbing the face of the magazine causing it to drag. I found this video from Don(AOA)It reminded me of what you were describing there. When I adjusted the barrel I had it too far out to begin with so I was getting that blast of air up into my face until I adjusted the barrel back toward the magazine. Having to deal with that blast of air in your face that’s not any good And shouldn’t be doing that.
Maybe a phone call to Airguns of Arizona on Monday I guess at this point I don’t know what else to suggest.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@c.wallace_06 I may have to call them. The other issue is that when temps drop below 51F, my mag doesn’t like to advance after every shot. Sometimes I have to manually rotate it after each shot. I can’t hunt like that. Right now I’m on my porch and it’s like 75F. I may walk the dog and take it hog hunting a little later on. But yea, I don’t enjoy air in my eye. It makes keep my eye open and holding for follow through very difficult.

 

[c.wallace_06]

No it should not do that.. rifle may need a good cleaning inside and out and a thorough inspection

Question since you bought the rifle has it been doing this the entire time you have owned it?

 

[Ezana4CE]

No it should not do that.. rifle may need a good cleaning inside and out and a thorough inspection

Question since you bought the rifle has it been doing this the entire time you have owned it?

@c.wallace_06 I can’t recall. This is the most I’ve shot the gun. When I first got it I’d don’t have much time to shoot it. The last 3 shooting sessions I’ve noticed it. One time it threw a shard of lead in my eye.

 

[c.wallace_06]

@c.wallace_06 I can’t recall. This is the most I’ve shot the gun. When I first got it I’d don’t have much time to shoot it. The last 3 shooting sessions I’ve noticed it. One time it threw a shard of lead in my eye.

Shaving lead is definitely a timing issue on the magazine
Sounds to me like a filthy gun needs to be cleaned inside and out thoroughly inspected for headspace issues and parts that may not be surface true. Ex breach of the barrel and face of the magazine.
I don’t like 51° weather, but yeah that’s not cold. I thought you were describing more like sub freezing.
I would suggest calling Shane at Airguns of Arizona on Monday. Describe what’s going on I find them to be pretty good about taking care of customers or future customers. Regardless, if you’re not comfortable working on it, I’d send it in and have them go through it.
What you’ve described is not gonna fix itself nor is it gonna get any better IMO

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

If there is magazine cycling issues at tension and also air blasting when loose enough to cycle, it could be a separate issue altogether that is masking itself as a barrel tension issue. This leads me to think that either the spring tensioned cycling mechanisms are not operating smoothly with each other because of grease or lack thereof, or there are lead flakes/shavings in the magazine bearing area that are causing enough drag and or magazine misalignment that it wouldn't cycle perfectly every time.

Both issues are remedied by a thorough cleaning of magazine and bearing assembly and an internal cleaning and re-greasing of the action assembly.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

I type slow, so I didn't see your previous posts...

That sucks to be getting lead shavings to the face. I agree with @c.wallace_06, that is definitely the magazine cycling slowly that is shaving lead off when shot. Can you throw that bore scope down the pipe and get us a picture of the magazine to barrel relationship to see if it is aligned right now? It should be perfectly centered. I don't know if the barrel's align with tension screws similar the Huben GK1, but those pistols will do the same thing with a barrel misalignment issue.

Here's a before and after of cleaning up the internals. I don't have any pictures of the barrel and magazine removal yet.

 

[c.wallace_06]

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[Ezana4CE]

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@c.wallace_06 I’ve seen this one too. What this content creator doesn’t tell you is that in order to remove those cages to place witness marks on the barrel, the barrel must be completely removed and replaced. This does nothing for the person removing the barrel for the first time. He also leaves out a step necessary to remove the barrel. I don’t think I got the shroud off. Since mine spins freely anyway, do I need to remove the CF shroud to remove or loosen the barrel? Shouldn’t I be able to remove the moderator cover and turn the moderator core to unscrew or loosen the barrel? I was a bit apprehensive about moving the barrel position without witness marks because I was worried about not being able to replace it in the correct or previous position without screwing something up.

The two vids you’ve shared in this thread are the two best videos I’ve seen. I think we have some rain in the forecast this week. I may give it a go again once the rain comes.

 

[Ezana4CE]

I type slow, so I didn't see your previous posts...

That sucks to be getting lead shavings to the face. I agree with @c.wallace_06, that is definitely the magazine cycling slowly that is shaving lead off when shot. Can you throw that bore scope down the pipe and get us a picture of the magazine to barrel relationship to see if it is aligned right now? It should be perfectly centered. I don't know if the barrel's align with tension screws similar the Huben GK1, but those pistols will do the same thing with a barrel misalignment issue.

Here's a before and after of cleaning up the internals. I don't have any pictures of the barrel and magazine removal yet.
View attachment 11380View attachment 11381

@Airgun-hobbyist I’m having a helluva time trying to get this plate off. I don’t want to mat the gun or bugger the threads. Which technique did you use? Where did you place the tip of your tool to pry?

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

@Airgun-hobbyist I’m having a helluva time trying to get this plate off. I don’t want to mat the gun or bugger the threads. Which technique did you use? Where did you place the tip of your tool to pry?

@Ezana4CE It is small enough to be put down in the screw holes, wedged sideways at the bottom of the plate, and pulled up with the tool. The flat tip of the screwdriver was filed round and narrower one side to match the shank, and the other side was filed into the foot a sharp angle so it would get under the edge of the plate by the screw threads. It needed to be pulled up a little at a tine at each hole.

I made the tool from a small screwdriver that the round shank was a little smaller than the screw holes. File the notch first on the wide edge of one side, aggressively deep and flat, being sure to.leave a foot. Then round the opposite side to match the shank. Then work on the foot, making it square with the filed shank and flat on the bottom. The picture is kind of decieving as to how small the tool really is.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

@Ezana4CE These two red lines and their respective parts should be perfectly centered and they don't appear to be. They appear offset from each other. Is this an illusion with the camera? If not, this being offset (if it is the magazine to bore relationship) would cause the lead shaving, air blast, and accuracy issues at times.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@Ezana4CE These two red lines and their respective parts should be perfectly centered and they don't appear to be. They appear offset from each other. Is this an illusion with the camera? If not, this being offset (if it is the magazine to bore relationship) would cause the lead shaving, air blast, and accuracy issues at times.

View attachment 11405

@Airgun-hobbyist Your guess is probably better than mine. This is my first time looking at any of this. I am still feeling air in my face. I didn’t have any more daylight to readjust and go shoot again. At least I’m no longer intimidated by the process and I know what to do. I left those annoying cages off of the rifle so it should be easy next time.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

@Ezana4CE if you take the mirror off the scope it will give a good picture of alignment at the magazine. If your still getting air something is either not in sync or is loose somewhere.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@Ezana4CE These two red lines and their respective parts should be perfectly centered and they don't appear to be. They appear offset from each other. Is this an illusion with the camera? If not, this being offset (if it is the magazine to bore relationship) would cause the lead shaving, air blast, and accuracy issues at times.

View attachment 11405

@Airgun-hobbyist What do the two constituent parts that need to be aligned do? Which parts are these?