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Impact Bhaur's analysis on POI shift in FX Impact and their guns based on liner system

Mubhaur

HAM Specialist
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The POI shift is rather a relative thing.

For casual shooters and most hunters the slight POI shift is not a problem and might not come into their attention, hence they might not notice it.

While for keen precession shooters I mostly find that even a slight POI shift is a big problem.

Then there are again two scenarios. One scenario is this that the shooter always re zero the gun for every new session. Once it's done, there is no issue for that session.

The other scenario is in which the shooter doesn't re zero the gun for a new session. Here the issues and comparisons start.

As per my experience, Royal 400, Royal 500 and Boss keeps the POI as close to any last session as it is possible without the need to re zero the gun.

There are other external factors that can still affect the POI very slightly which are change in humidity, temperature etc. These are constant factors for all kinds of guns and all kinds of barrel systems.

FX liner system is made up of a number of parts i. e. Liner, rear retaining part having transfer port, front retaining nut, outer shell of liner and O rings. These were the parts when the liner system was initially introduced.

Later Ernest Rowe started inserting a carbon fiber tube between the liner and the shell and epoxied it. Definitely this had been done to fix some inherent issues of the liner system which is most probably POI shift.

Later FX also started selling carbon fiber pipes for this purpose.

Even later Ernest Rowe and mny other tuners started tensioning the barrel in FX Impact.

Later FX also started offering it.

So the improvements in the liner system went on and on.

In my experience, the free floating barrel keeps the best POI provided the barrel is solid.

FX makes wonderful liners. When I convert these liners into a solid sturdy barrel, 95% of POI shifts are gone. But then I have to prepare a separate complete barrel in which I cannot replace the liner. For some other liner I make a new complete barrel using that liner.

I am also using some real solid barrels in Impact and get good consistency of POI.

Further the tolerances of each gun are different hence some face more issues than others.

I understand that one of the reasons of keeping the liners inside the cylinder or plenum in Panthera and DRS is to avoid POI shift.

Almost all the PCP models of FX are currently being made on liner system. So changing the liner system means redesigning of all the models of FX as far as the balance of the gun is concerned.

The liners are very accurate but are mostly unsuccessful in creating a consistantly precise and accurate truck gun.

Many users having liner system using the gun in their trucks complain about this issue while similar users of Cricket or RAW do not face this issue.

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Bhaur
 
I fixed my Maverick Compact POI shift by selling it and buying a Revere. No POI shift since.

With my Maverick it wouldn’t necessarily be good for an entire session faster re-zero. It could shift during a session. I used it exclusively for 30y Challenge targets. Those targets made it easy to clearly see shifts.
 
I've answered other posts like this one, so again, here is my take.

I own an Impact Mk II and an Mk III. I have owned just about every iteration of liner support FX offers. The latest iteration has offered the best groups, to be sure. Nonetheless, I have never experienced any POI shifts in the 7 plus years I've been shooting my Impacts. Never! As I alluded to, the groups have improved to the point, I can't imagine them getting any tighter.

I will admit, the POI does shift a bit after I clean the liner, but that is an expected outcome.
 
I've experienced some good and bad with both the Impact and Dreamlite platforms. While being both very ergonomic and nice shooting from the bench, the impact was really accurate as well but once out in a demanding field environment both were to put it politely complete failures. The Dreamlite to the point you could take out of the case after a car ride and poi could jump more than an inch laterally at 50 yards from zero. The impact wasn't as bad but would have random occasional poi change for what I could find no reason. The many grub screws and small pins holding the cocking lever were constantly an issue along with the poorly functioning plastic magazine. At the moment the Impact is sitting in a bucket where eventually it will get rebuilt with a solid barrel and some fastener upgrades.. During the time I was in the mood to fix up the Dreamlite FXusa was closed for a month and sourcing parts was very difficult, mainly for the shroud and gauge housing that no distributor had in stock. Since then the Dreamlite has made a much better office lamp than it ever made as a functioning air rifle. Yes, I turned it into an office lamp with a shade and everything. People ask me all the time to review these products and the truth is I'm just not interested, to many other brands that offer more of what I need out of a product.
 
Has anyone considered thermal expansion as the culprit with the high parts count FX barrel/liner/shroud system? Does each segment of that assembly expand and contract at the same rate as temperature changes? It shouldn't be a problem since all of the long parts are steel, but you never know.
 
I fixed my Maverick Compact POI shift by selling it and buying a Revere. No POI shift since.

With my Maverick it wouldn’t necessarily be good for an entire session faster re-zero. It could shift during a session. I used it exclusively for 30y Challenge targets. Those targets made it easy to clearly see shifts.
This had me laughing out loud. The Revere is a great gun
 
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I've experienced some good and bad with both the Impact and Dreamlite platforms. While being both very ergonomic and nice shooting from the bench, the impact was really accurate as well but once out in a demanding field environment both were to put it politely complete failures. The Dreamlite to the point you could take out of the case after a car ride and poi could jump more than an inch laterally at 50 yards from zero. The impact wasn't as bad but would have random occasional poi change for what I could find no reason. The many grub screws and small pins holding the cocking lever were constantly an issue along with the poorly functioning plastic magazine. At the moment the Impact is sitting in a bucket where eventually it will get rebuilt with a solid barrel and some fastener upgrades.. During the time I was in the mood to fix up the Dreamlite FXusa was closed for a month and sourcing parts was very difficult, mainly for the shroud and gauge housing that no distributor had in stock. Since then the Dreamlite has made a much better office lamp than it ever made as a functioning air rifle. Yes, I turned it into an office lamp with a shade and everything. People ask me all the time to review these products and the truth is I'm just not interested, to many other brands that offer more of what I need out of a product.
Sounds
I've experienced some good and bad with both the Impact and Dreamlite platforms. While being both very ergonomic and nice shooting from the bench, the impact was really accurate as well but once out in a demanding field environment both were to put it politely complete failures. The Dreamlite to the point you could take out of the case after a car ride and poi could jump more than an inch laterally at 50 yards from zero. The impact wasn't as bad but would have random occasional poi change for what I could find no reason. The many grub screws and small pins holding the cocking lever were constantly an issue along with the poorly functioning plastic magazine. At the moment the Impact is sitting in a bucket where eventually it will get rebuilt with a solid barrel and some fastener upgrades.. During the time I was in the mood to fix up the Dreamlite FXusa was closed for a month and sourcing parts was very difficult, mainly for the shroud and gauge housing that no distributor had in stock. Since then the Dreamlite has made a much better office lamp than it ever made as a functioning air rifle. Yes, I turned it into an office lamp with a shade and everything. People ask me all the time to review these products and the truth is I'm just not interested, to many other brands that offer more of what I need out of a product.
Seeing that it's in the bucket and its obvious you don't like fx why bother.
Like you say there is so many more so much better so why not move on.
 
Sounds

Seeing that it's in the bucket and its obvious you don't like fx why bother.
Like you say there is so many more so much better so why not move on.
I definitely have, you ask who makes a better barrel...well if you want a liner I guess a tj isn't bad with some work. As far as a solid real barrel I don't see anything better than a SubMOA at the moment, Claudio Flores made that pretty clear in his last event.
 
And yet some of us never sees this problem? I have over the last 2 months fired around 15000 pellets while practicing for the 2025 benchrest season through 2 different FX Impacts and I have not seen a POI shift even ONCE!

And I am not the only one.....

During this time I did experience a POI shift with an AA S400f and a borrowed Anshutz 9015 so I am well aware what to look for.
 
And yet some of us never sees this problem? I have over the last 2 months fired around 15000 pellets while practicing for the 2025 benchrest season through 2 different FX Impacts and I have not seen a POI shift even ONCE!

And I am not the only one.....

During this time I did experience a POI shift with an AA S400f and a borrowed Anshutz 9015 so I am well aware what to look for.
That's good. Nothing wrong with not having an issue, that's what you want after all. ✔️
 
I have read all about the POI issues and it has always intrigued me as to what is causing it. So I bought a .25 cal M2. I have never had an issue with POI shift. This rifle will go from home, to work, tested at work, then out to a local farm for woodchucks and then back home. I have never had any issues.

Why do some people have this issue and others don't? My first thought is how people handle and store the rifle. I am not implying abuse or neglect. If you leave the rifle in the case and standing up on the end, is it the muzzle end or butt stock? Does this matter? Some people leave the case standing on the long end. This puts the rifle upside down resting on the scope and barrel. No idea if any of this changes the POI but it makes me wonder.

The other thought is tolerance stack up. Every part has a tolerance range. The OD of the barrel is smaller than the ID of the breech. How much smaller though? Is the hole at the large and the barrel at the small end of the tolerance? Does that lead to a POI issue?


John
 
@BenjeneerJohn I like your tolerance stack suggestion. As you well know - and better than me! - the larger the number of parts in any mechanical device, the larger the "tolerance stack" (impact of the variability between multiple different parts interacting with each other - my simple definition) becomes.

The FX Impact is a pretty complex item, with a large number of parts. That's the obvious place I would start looking - after handling issues, as you say.
 
Why do some people have this issue and others don't? My first thought is how people handle and store the rifle. I am not implying abuse or neglect. If you leave the rifle in the case and standing up on the end, is it the muzzle end or butt stock? Does this matter? Some people leave the case standing on the long end. This puts the rifle upside down resting on the scope and barrel. No idea if any of this changes the POI but it makes me wonder.
Good points, I am always cognizant of how I stack my gun case as I want it butt down....lol contemplated leaving a mark on the case so it's not a mind game all the time😂
I'm not afraid to say it...my Brk Ghost had a MAJOR poi shift after a cleaning (including pulling barrel) and I still have no idea why. After I redid it and polished barrel and reassembled it went right back to its original poi (I'm talking a few inches left and a few inches down @50Y!!🤨) As for the FX impact? It is plain and simply a very complicated pcp with many parts and o-rings and would be more susceptible you would think to having these issues. Compound other factors and it could be a nightmare I suppose. Some people swear by barrel liners, other flee from em.
 
To get a POI shift I suppose you need something to move. Either the barrel/liner/barrel attachment point or the scope/scope mount. The rest of the "system" should not cause a POI shift (assuming no change in muzzle velocity).

I have seen a POI shift caused by a scope, something was moving inside the scope.
 

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