Ghost Ghost HP plenum size ????

[Woogie_man]

1/2" at 100 yards should not be hard at all with modern airguns. With a constant weight ammo and a highly consistent rifle it should be a no brainer.

It's odd that daystate is saying that twist rate doesn't matter. Would be fun to get a few barrels with different twists and run the same ammo through all of them. To see what works and what doesn't.

 

[Solo1]

As far as good groups at 100 i realize that between 75 &100 there is still a large chance for wind to come into play but i have shot 22 lr a lot at 100 and try to compare results to that and i have 3 22 lrs that do extremely well at 100 but wind even a slight breeze affects them too. But i do think comparing air to them is valid

 

[GHairgunner]

To be honest I’m reserved on the slug shooting , I think so many shooters expect one hole groups at 100-200 but I really don’t know what the bench mark for accuracy should be on an air gun , I would personally say 1/2 moa groups at 100 would be a fantastic rifle but is it consistently achievable, I am very interested to hear other people’s thoughts on the whole slug concept and what would be the good-bad-amazing benchmarks

I don't know that is possible on a day to day basis. If you take out wind and shot indoors you would still have enough air movement in heating and air conditioning to ruin repeatability. While some guns can repeat better then others something as small as temperature change during the day can throw off the accuracy. Say if you shot in the morning and got several groups of half MOA then turn around and tried to repeat in the afternoon after some warming I doubt it could be done.
Many reason for this some being: Our ammo still sucks in comparison to centerfire rifles. Barrels are the great unknow there is some barrels that are getting better but the true buy it and bolt it on with no work and have half MOA, no way. Having a gun that can do it is one thing, but you change it as conditions change to keep it? All great questions.

 

[Soren Drost]

I would personally say 1/2 moa groups at 100 would be a fantastic rifle but is it consistently achievable, I am very interested to hear other people’s thoughts on the whole slug concept and what would be the good-bad-amazing benchmarks

With all the slug shooting that I have been doing over the last 5-6 years in .177, I would say that an accurate and consistant air rifle should be 1 MOA grouping

 

[Lee unsworth]

With all the slug shooting that I have been doing over the last 5-6 years in .177, I would say that an accurate and consistant air rifle should be 1 MOA grouping

View attachment 18526

Fantastic shooting as always søren

 

[Solo1]

With all the slug shooting that I have been doing over the last 5-6 years in .177, I would say that an accurate and consistant air rifle should be 1 MOA grouping

View attachment 18526

And the outlires there are most likely wind. It amazes me how well those little 13 gr slugs shoot!

 

[Woogie_man]

Barrel ordered....and it will ship Monday. Also got conformation that the thermal just blew shipped as well

 

[Franklink]

To be honest I’m reserved on the slug shooting , I think so many shooters expect one hole groups at 100-200 but I really don’t know what the bench mark for accuracy should be on an air gun , I would personally say 1/2 moa groups at 100 would be a fantastic rifle but is it consistently achievable, I am very interested to hear other people’s thoughts on the whole slug concept and what would be the good-bad-amazing benchmarks

To average MOA @ 100 yards is a lofty goal, even with slugs. And given the smaller percentage rate of success with slugs than pellets, ESPECIALLY with slugs.

That opinion comes from real-world testing of 50+ airgun barrels at this point. Twist rates from as slow as 1:16 up to 1:32.

My definition of "averaging MOA @ 100 yards" is to take at least 5, 5 shot groups and average their CTC size. Which doesn't sound horribly impressive, but it is an exceptionally rare barrel/projectile combination that will do it.

 

[Woogie_man]

Agreed, shooting more in a group works much better than many want to admit. Even better is to shoot a single shot on a multiple target sheet. Then you can see how much your rounds are actually moving around on the page. Makes your one hole group look much worse than you thought it was.

 

[Danman]

Here is what tony b had to say in an interview with Stephen on barrels and barrel making i thought you guys would find it interesting

So – in my opinion – the twist rate for airgun barrels is much less significant an issue than many other aspects of the gun and – even more so – the ability of the shooter

The water is muddy here....I dont 100% agree with all Tony's points.
....for a pellet barrel i dont think a certain twist is the be all end all over another. A 1:32 (Rti Prophet) can stabilize pellets great, so can a 1:17.7. But for slugs it matters for sure, slugs dont shoot well outta the .22/.25 1:30 twist at all, who of us hasnt tried? Daystate knows this and lists their pellet barrels as pellet barrels and there slug barrels as slug & pellet barrels. I recall @Franklink shooting past 100Y with his Ghost and experiencing wind drift too, so i think it does apply to airguns/pellets

 

[Franklink]

The water is muddy here....I dont 100% agree with all Tony's points.
....for a pellet barrel i dont think a certain twist is the be all end all over another. A 1:32 (Rti Prophet) can stabilize pellets great, so can a 1:17.7. But for slugs it matters for sure, slugs dont shoot well outta the .22/.25 1:30 twist at all, who of us hasnt tried? Daystate knows this and lists their pellet barrels as pellet barrels and there slug barrels as slug & pellet barrels. I recall @Franklink shooting past 100Y with his Ghost and experiencing wind drifttoo, so i think it does apply to airguns/pellets

The whole barrel to projectile match (or mismatch) is incredibly nuanced and that makes painting with broad brushes of generalizations quite difficult.

Yes, there are some generalizations that hold true....like how heavy .22 pellets like the 25.4 and 28.55 generally do really well from 1:30 and 1:32 polygonal barrels. They can also do well from 1:17.7 barrels with standard rifling but usually need slower speeds from those twist rates and rifling profiles. .

And that slug weights (and therefore lengths) need different twist rates for best accuracy and precision. Ie too heavy (too long) will need a faster twist than a lighter (shorter) slug.

But there are also very peculiar results when we start doing comparisons.....
Sometimes a particular slug barrel will shoot the desired slug really well with a choke. Sometimes they won't.

Another head scratcher .....I spent a bunch of time with a friends .177/1:36 slow twist poly this past summer. I have that exact barrel (spec-wise) on my primary field target gun and it is simply phenomenal. Pellets pushed through both barrels felt very similar, I prepped his barrel the same way I prepped mine. Prepped the pellets the same way. Same speeds. Even tried his barrel in my gun. End result? His 1:36 simply didn't shoot to the same level of precision as mine.

Some of the really knowledgeable barrel guys will say that they can make 95+ % of barrels shoot well, with the correct massaging, but they'll also admit that theyve come across a handful that even their black magic couldn't make shoot straight. That's as much art as it is science.

Sadly, generalizations are a starting point, but it still comes down to shooting a particular barrel to see how that specific barrel will shoot.

 

[SpindleB]

If/when I do get a Brk slug barrel and find the plenum to be the weak link i'd try popping the reg gauge out and threading in a small 20-ish cc chamber in its place. But for my intended usage; 25-34gr slugs for starlings up to 125Y away, the Ghost will hit the req slug speeds no problem in factory form with the 28inch barrel for those weights. But....the burning question: Will it be accurate enought to hit said starlings with slugs past 50Y?

I have been working on a plenum exactly for that. Uses a small inline filter tube with the dessicant removed. I may go smaller but the one I am using was just sitting on the shelf.

Still needs a couple parts. M10 extension and a MFF Tee. Want a gauge pointing at the rear readable without turning the gun. So the tee will move to the right and the m10 from the tee to the gauge port.

 

[Danman]

This is probably a good place to ask this question....Do any of you gentleman know if the 28in .22 L.W. slug barrel for the ghost is polygonal? I know for a fact my 1:30 slow twist is, while my S510 is a standard rifled 1:17.7 barrel.

 

[Billm]

I’ve asked several times what exactly shooters consider a good achievable airgun group with slugs is at 100yds and no one has a definitive answer. It’s hard to find the Unicorn if you don’t know what a Unicorn looks like. From what I’ve seen posted here, there and everywhere: consistent 1/2 MOA is unrealistic at 100+ yards for most shooters/rifles with slugs. Talking to Kelly at Corbin, they’re hoping to jump start slug development and hopefully change some of this. I don’t currently have a rifle that is sub-MOA capable with slugs, wish I did.

 

[Franklink]

I’ve asked several times what exactly shooters consider a good achievable airgun group with slugs is at 100yds and no one has a definitive answer. It’s hard to find the Unicorn if you don’t know what a Unicorn looks like. From what I’ve seen posted here, there and everywhere: consistent 1/2 MOA is unrealistic at 100+ yards for most shooters/rifles with slugs. Talking to Kelly at Corbin, they’re hoping to jump start slug development and hopefully change some of this. I don’t currently have a rifle that is sub-MOA capable with slugs, wish I did.

I started a thread on the other big airgun forum, requesting people to share 100 yard groups, specifically a 5x5 challenge. Simple premise, shoot 5 groups of 5 shots each @ 100 yards.
VERY few 5x5 challenges were shared.

That suggests a couple things...
Cherry-picked groups are the most frequently shared. Or rather, when groups are publicly shared, they're the exceptional ones, not the average of what that particular gun/barrel/projectile/shooter/etc is achieving.

An average is a very simple mathematical concept, and one that tells us volumes in this situation.

Again, an airgun (slug or otherwise) that can shoot a 5x5 challenge at 100 yards and have the average size of those five groups be less than an inch (roughly MOA) is a rare bird indeed.

 

[SpindleB]

I have been working on a plenum exactly for that. Uses a small inline filter tube with the dessicant removed. I may go smaller but the one I am using was just sitting on the shelf.

Still needs a couple parts. M10 extension and a MFF Tee. Want a gauge pointing at the rear readable without turning the gun. So the tee will move to the right and the m10 from the tee to the gauge port.
View attachment 18532

Version 2.0
Smaller, lighter and with gauge.

Also, better to add at the fill port, if you can. Gauge mounts many times have a very small port and adding a plenum there may not be effective.

M10 plug
M10 90°
M10 FMM Tee (FFM would be better)
M10 F to F for guage. FFM would eliminate this
M10 F to M if offset from gun is needed.

Tried to put a bleed valve on the plugged end but all I had were 1/8NPT

View attachment 18534View attachment 18535

I started a thread on the other big airgun forum, requesting people to share 100 yard groups, specifically a 5x5 challenge. Simple premise, shoot 5 groups of 5 shots each @ 100 yards.
VERY few 5x5 challenges were shared.

That suggests a couple things...
Cherry-picked groups are the most frequently shared. Or rather, when groups are publicly shared, they're the exceptional ones, not the average of what that particular gun/barrel/projectile/shooter/etc is achieving.

An average is a very simple mathematical concept, and one that tells us volumes in this situation.

Again, an airgun (slug or otherwise) that can shoot a 5x5 challenge at 100 yards and have the average size of those five groups be less than an inch (roughly MOA) is a rare bird indeed.

I would say few have 100 yard ranges at home. They would have to go to a range or external site.

Urban setting having 45 yards like I do is rare. I have a creek out back so my property is extended to the creek.

 

[GHairgunner]

I started a thread on the other big airgun forum, requesting people to share 100 yard groups, specifically a 5x5 challenge. Simple premise, shoot 5 groups of 5 shots each @ 100 yards.
VERY few 5x5 challenges were shared.

That suggests a couple things...
Cherry-picked groups are the most frequently shared. Or rather, when groups are publicly shared, they're the exceptional ones, not the average of what that particular gun/barrel/projectile/shooter/etc is achieving.

An average is a very simple mathematical concept, and one that tells us volumes in this situation.

Again, an airgun (slug or otherwise) that can shoot a 5x5 challenge at 100 yards and have the average size of those five groups be less than an inch (roughly MOA) is a rare bird indeed.

I like the idea of 5x5. @ 100 is the tough part. Just moved to Kansas and bought a property capable of 100, but right now I only have 75 yards. 25 yards of lumberjacking to go. I don't think that you would see many if any 5x5's average less then 1.0 MOA slug or pellet

 

[Billm]

Version 2.0
Smaller, lighter and with gauge.

Also, better to add at the fill port, if you can. Gauge mounts many times have a very small port and adding a plenum there may not be effective.

M10 plug
M10 90°
M10 FMM Tee (FFM would be better)
M10 F to F for guage. FFM would eliminate this
M10 F to M if offset from gun is needed.

Tried to put a bleed valve on the plugged end but all I had were 1/8NPT

View attachment 18534View attachment 18535

I would say few have 100 yard ranges at home. They would have to go to a range or external site.

Urban setting having 45 yards like I do is rare. I have a creek out back so my property is extended to the creek.

Forty five yards in the Bay Area is impressive. I do believe you’re right about the average shooter not having the ability to shoot at extended ranges at home.

 

[SpindleB]

Forty five yards in the Bay Area is impressive. I do believe you’re right about the average shooter not having the ability to shoot at extended ranges at home.

45 yards in East Oakland is a unicorn damn near. I have a 7200 sqft lot my neighbor has 10,000 sqft. Normal is 4000 sqft.

 

[SpindleB]

I like the idea of 5x5. @ 100 is the tough part. Just moved to Kansas and bought a property capable of 100, but right now I only have 75 yards. 25 yards of lumberjacking to go. I don't think that you would see many if any 5x5's average less then 1.0 MOA slug or pellet

As an almost 4th generation logger, dodged that bullet, it would be "logging to go".

What sort of timber are you removing?