Ghost 22 Ghost and slugs

[pan60]

I would be interested in know if cutting the thread before or atfter the barell was finished
I can fathom the thread in and of themself have much more of an effect the a mn pissing in the river changes the corse of the river? but I have not done a mountain of testing? the only thing the thread could effect is the turbulence and that could be easily solve with a prediction threaded ring.
which leads me to distortion if the threads are cut after the barrel is done the there could be some effect on the crown or diction on the very end effecting aquracy?
also rather the barrel is choked or not?
I assume slug barrels would not be chokes so I woud think its a non issue?
I would LOVE to see the testing and speck on this?

 

[Franklink]

I would be interested in know if cutting the thread before or atfter the barell was finished
I can fathom the thread in and of themself have much more of an effect the a mn pissing in the river changes the corse of the river? but I have not done a mountain of testing? the only thing the thread could effect is the turbulence and that could be easily solve with a prediction threaded ring.
which leads me to distortion if the threads are cut after the barrel is done the there could be some effect on the crown or diction on the very end effecting aquracy?
also rather the barrel is choked or not?
I assume slug barrels would not be chokes so I woud think its a non issue?
I would LOVE to see the testing and speck on this?

It's not the threads themselves, but rather removing that material to make the threads. I've heard various theories, some of which include that removing that material releases tension/inherent stresses in the steel. I've also heard that the process by which the barrel is made create more or less inherent stresses in the steel...hard to determine the cause, but the end result of threading is that it opens up the bore. If the blank started with a choke, it sometimes prevents the muzzle being the "loosest" spot. BUT, threading an unchoked barrel makes the muzzle the loosest section of the bore, which is not conducive to accuracy.

 

[pan60]

It's not the threads themselves, but rather removing that material to make the threads. I've heard various theories, some of which include that removing that material releases tension/inherent stresses in the steel. I've also heard that the process by which the barrel is made create more or less inherent stresses in the steel...hard to determine the cause, but the end result of threading is that it opens up the bore. If the blank started with a choke, it sometimes prevents the muzzle being the "loosest" spot. BUT, threading an unchoked barrel makes the muzzle the loosest section of the bore, which is not conducive to accuracy.

maybe threading before the bare is done could have little to less effect on accuracy?
but them there might be a concern in maintaining center?
if some one could track down just what the issue was then it could be solve I beleave mostly because I feel we can save issue but we need to know just what the issue is.

 

[AOA ROB]

It is pot luck really. The spec is 2 10k from breech to muzzle. Threads can move the internal dimensions out of spec. I agree with Cole. The other issue is the threads must be cut after the 1.25 diameter blank is turned down. This can also choke an otherwise perfect barrel. We have noticed. There is good reason a Cut barrel is more cost than a button or hammer forged or cheapo pressed from outside. It is much better for holding precision and therefore a better chance for accuracy. My 2 c

Rob

 

[pan60]

so basically cutting the threads is causeing distortion and cutting them prior is practical I assume because of holding center?

 

[pan60]

just thinking out loud here
what if the threads where ground and not cut?
more costly and maybe not practical but I think that could have the ability to have the threads without the distortion?

 

[AOA ROB]

The solutions are two.

1. Don’t thread and have a higher chance of precision but less streamlined moderator install.

2. Thread and have an easy moderator install with the chance of lower precision.

Picks your poison.

Rob.

 

[pan60]

I will think on it but I beleave the thread could possibly be ground if cutting is causing distortion grind cold possibly solve that? I am not making barrels so no expert but I have ground thread for a few reasons and although its no fun it is doable.
so I will say this let me think on it as there is time and when you guys start getting the barrel if some one want I will bring the threads in one barrel possible? I reserve the right to change my mind but I think that is a doable solution.

 

[Joey 69]

The solutions are two.

1. Don’t thread and have a higher chance of precision but less streamlined moderator install.

2. Thread and have an easy moderator install with the chance of lower precision.

Picks your poison.

Rob.

I like the idea of a slip on adapter for moderator fitting. would you have any pics of one, can't come up with any
images in my old beannie.

 

[pan60]

@ AOA ROB pm sent

 

[Danman]

I will think on it but I beleave the thread could possibly be ground if cutting is causing distortion grind cold possibly solve that? I am not making barrels so no expert but I have ground thread for a few reasons and although its no fun it is doable.
so I will say this let me think on it as there is time and when you guys start getting the barrel if some one want I will bring the threads in one barrel possible? I reserve the right to change my mind but I think that is a doable solution.

It's hard to put into words how much I want slugs and only slugs to work out of my Ghost. Its reliable, consistent (shot to shot), powerful, well made, good looking, and horrid with slugs and meh with Mrds. If they can save a bit of money on the production by not threading them, then I'm all for it! There are of course a ton of airguns that are shrouded and the threads are cut in the shroud NOT the barrel. If u want a thread on mod, I'd build a shroud....The thought of buying one of these barrels and wrecking the crown by threading it just gives me nightmares

 

[pan60]

LOL its not the crown its the distortion caused and the expense of not having the distortion verse just not haveing the threads : )
I spoke with the man and these are barrel fr the extreme bench shooting wanting the very best in the world and really they are not in need of a moderator so no need.
: )

 

[Woogie_man]

Agreed Danman.

If the barrels shoot that is the key thing for everything for sure. I don't doubt that Tom wont come up with a killer method to mount a shroud or mod at the end of the barrel. Heck I am using a press fit on the Theoben Rapid I am playing with right now. And at 6" past the muzzle I am having no issues with clipping, out of a .250" when shooting a 22 caliber pellet. So it is doable, just need something secure when shooting higher power.

 

[Danman]

LOL its not the crown its the distortion caused and the expense of not having the distortion verse just not haveing the threads : )
I spoke with the man and these are barrel fr the extreme bench shooting wanting the very best in the world and really they are not in need of a moderator so no need.
: )

Money bores me, repeatable airgun accuracy does not. (No I'm not loaded!!) If I can get a Brk factory slug barrel doing 2inch slug groups @ 100Y for alot of money and a SubMoa with...lol, sub-moa groups @100Y for a little more money...I'd go with the better barrel. At this point it's an easy choice....because neither barrel is available. Personally I'm gonna hold off on the factory barrels for now, will be watching intently on how the new Blackwolfs in .22, .25, and .30 do with the long 28in slug barrel and slugs. If they do poorly, well....the Brk/Daystate barrel delay may be a blessing in disguise

 

[pan60]

I find the work of make the barrel as interesting as anything but I like move steel : )
I wont bore everyone with all our chat I will say for those that ae interested in why's as regards to the threads its boils down to distortion.
thanks for the jiggle MR. Tom as always I enjoyed the chat.

 

[Corvid_Hunter]

At around the 13:00 minute mark on this video he talks about shooting the .22cal H&N slugs with his Ghost. Says he has thumb nail sized groups at 50M at 900fps.

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[Danman]

Checked off a few things today on my airgun to-do list. One of them was try slugs @ slug distances outta the stock 600mm barrel. 75Y and windy, but Mrds were inside an inch @ 50Y, so if anything slugs should be a little better!? Lol. Complete waste of slugs. NSA .217 23gr....group didn't come close to staying on paper. 7 inches across, no stabilization. After that mess, I threw in a mag of 20gr lights, and it tightened right back up. The slugs themselves are pretty hard lead (I recall @Pumacarl saying this too) and didn't expand much, would be going 950fps-ish @ muzzle. Mrds went through 2 water jugs and were stuck in the 3rd & the slugs were trapped in the second jug. Only 2 of the 4 slugs i sent were hits.... Mrds that's a gimme @ 75Y.

 

[Solo1]

Checked off a few things today on my airgun to-do list. One of them was try slugs @ slug distances outta the stock 600mm barrel. 75Y and windy, but Mrds were inside an inch @ 50Y, so if anything slugs should be a little better!? Lol. Complete waste of slugs. NSA .217 23gr....group didn't come close to staying on paper. 7 inches across, no stabilization. After that mess, I threw in a mag of 20gr lights, and it tightened right back up. The slugs themselves are pretty hard lead (I recall @Pumacarl saying this too) and didn't expand much, would be going 950fps-ish @ muzzle. Mrds went through 2 water jugs and were stuck in the 3rd & the slugs were trapped in the second jug. Only 2 of the 4 slugs i sent were hits.... Mrds that's a gimme @ 75Y.

Really wish i lived close enough to tune up your gun. You might not even worry about slugs anymore.

 

[Danman]

Really wish i lived close enough to tune up your gun. You might not even worry about slugs anymore.

She's almost off reg....then the magic happens! Gauges, lower reg pressure, clean the barrel again as i was shooting those slugs, repl breech o-ring and retry. I want a slug gun that only shoots slugs for the long stuff...eventually. Am still hoping the Ghost can be it someday. Was gonna try the Mrds @ 100Y again yesterday but too windy for decent results I was thinking. Of course, once home and all packed away the wind died down again