Reality vs YouTube gun performance for the new guys

[PasadenaMike]

The following is from personal experience I’m not a tuner I’ve just owned too many Airguns . I have a really good friend that recently bought his first regulated gun. The gun is really accurate however he’s not been very happy with it. The gun is pellet on pellet on paper but the numbers were bothering him. Curiosity got me to ask some questions. Come to find out that his gun only has a 25 foot spread which to me is excellent but I’ve owned many regulated guns and know what to expect. Honestly I’m ok with a 40 foot spread because the distances I shoot 40 spread makes no difference. My buddy has been watching YouTube and comparing doctored extreme spreads of 5 feet. I’m not saying it’s impossible but most guns unless you spend a week on and have the capability of multiple dials and knobs will never give you 5 foot spread. They won’t tell you that they sorted and weighed pellets or any of the details. All the YouTube world is trying to do is sell a gun. Also variables in the chronograph makes a huge difference as well. My fx chronograph isn’t very consistent but it’s good enough. Nate Chronographs on the other hand have proven very consistent. Other things such as humidity, pellet consistency, temperature, air pressure all play a big role. The point is don’t sweat the #s. Shoot at paper and see the results. You’ll know when your regulator is bad believe me it’s obvious.

 

[Northeastbeast]

Airguns are hard to shoot at long range. 75 yards and out so always have realistic expectations. It takes practice to become a good air rifle shooter. I have tuned lots of airguns and getting a tight Es is possible. To compete at a pro level your rifle should have a Es of 7 or under. My 100 yard Red Panda 30 has a SD of 0.67 and a ES of 2 so yea its possible. Picture below so you know its possible. It takes time to become good at anything and consistency is key.

 

[PasadenaMike]

Airguns are hard to shoot at long range. 75 yards and out so always have realistic expectations. It takes practice to become a good air rifle shooter. I have tuned lots of airguns and getting a tight Es is possible. To compete at a pro level your rifle should have a Es of 7 or under. My 100 yard Red Panda 30 has a SD of 0.67 and a ES of 2 so yea its possible. Picture below so you know its possible. It takes time to become good at anything and consistency is key.

Yeah at pro levels for sure you need tight ES. The panda and guns like the impact allow for fine tuning but guns like the avenger, Katran…..they’re good enough for hunting but not really competitive with the panda and other race guns. Someone might get lucky and the wind can be in their favor with an Avenger but the Panda throws it in one hole time and time again. Of course you need to know how to tune at pro levels and shoot at pro levels.

 

[FL22]

The following is from personal experience I’m not a tuner I’ve just owned too many Airguns . I have a really good friend that recently bought his first regulated gun. The gun is really accurate however he’s not been very happy with it. The gun is pellet on pellet on paper but the numbers were bothering him. Curiosity got me to ask some questions. Come to find out that his gun only has a 25 foot spread which to me is excellent but I’ve owned many regulated guns and know what to expect. Honestly I’m ok with a 40 foot spread because the distances I shoot 40 spread makes no difference. My buddy has been watching YouTube and comparing doctored extreme spreads of 5 feet. I’m not saying it’s impossible but most guns unless you spend a week on and have the capability of multiple dials and knobs will never give you 5 foot spread. They won’t tell you that they sorted and weighed pellets or any of the details. All the YouTube world is trying to do is sell a gun. Also variables in the chronograph makes a huge difference as well. My fx chronograph isn’t very consistent but it’s good enough. Nate Chronographs on the other hand have proven very consistent. Other things such as humidity, pellet consistency, temperature, air pressure all play a big role. The point is don’t sweat the #s. Shoot at paper and see the results. You’ll know when your regulator is bad believe me it’s obvious.

There’s a lot to unpack here, Mike .

I’ve said before that with a handful of exceptions YT should be treated as entertainment.

I’ll go a little further and say that if it is someone’s choice to only watch YT and make a decision to buy something expensive or unique, I don’t see that as a content creators fault.

There’s way too much information out there dealers to call, people to talk to in forums and so on.

Not trying to knock your buddy. I’m just of the point that people have to accept responsibility for their own choices. Idk, perhaps he should’ve talked to you a little bit more.

 

[pan60]

the only YouTube video that ever pushed me over the edge on a gun was see our fellow forum member drag it behind his jeep and chunk it of the mountain top cause he didnt want to toat em them pick up the surviver and hunt some squirrel to gain his energy after the hick and so as not to starve before he could get back home.

 

[PasadenaMike]

the only YouTube video that ever pushed me over the edge on a gun was see our fellow forum member drag it behind his jeep and chunk it of the mountain top cause he didnt want to toat em them pick up the surviver and hunt some squirrel to gain his energy after the hick and so as not to starve before he could get back home.

I own one of those guns

 

[Luis Leon]

the only YouTube video that ever pushed me over the edge on a gun was see our fellow forum member drag it behind his jeep and chunk it of the mountain top cause he didnt want to toat em them pick up the surviver and hunt some squirrel to gain his energy after the hick and so as not to starve before he could get back home.

That video was what hooked me on the Atomic… And am still hooked… The only guns to survive that abuse were the Atomic and Evol, the FX if I recall became a lamp…

 

[Danman]

Yeah there is alot to unpack here, things like how new is the gun, ie is it "broken in" yet? Do they sort ammo on the channel....does he sort his ammo? Is he using the best ammo he could find and going with that or just whatever was cheap or available locally? I quickly ran through my Pro chrono shot strings consisting of 2 springers and 2 pcps. The S510 won hands down; most of its strings have an extreme spread of (I kid you not) 5 -7 fps. Now that gun IS broken in and that is with JSB an H&N pellets that it likes (Hades, 18.13, 16gr AA, and Barracuda extremes).....and it's just a seriously well made pcp. My springers standard deviations? Lol like 40 to 50 fps (and one is a TX!) As mentioned close range no biggy but going past 50Y for competition/pesting practice and looking for good information, I'd be running my chrony.

 

[Pumacarl]

I get what you're saying because my brother got an Avenger and his first group he shot at 100y was 1.25" with NSA slugs and he was pissed that it wasn't under an inch! I was telling him how awesome that was, but he didn't believe it because of what he had seen others (me included) do with their guns. He actually shot a better group next with 34gr JSB pellets, but it wasn't sub-moa so he was upset. Sooo, I thought about that for a minute and told him too bad, and left it at that. The moral of the story is not to worry about other peoples expectations or their ability to absorb knowledge and recognize bs. That's up to them. As far as YouTube goes there is nothing that those guys are doing that isn't repeatable if you really want to do that. If new shooters are putting themselves and their equipment to that standard, good for them! They've got some work to do and some money to spend, but if that's what they want, so be it. Personally I find the most annoying group are people that buy entry level and expect top tier performance, like ...Duh!

 

[Luis Leon]

Reality? A subjective thing, particularly in these absurd times here in da USA. For me when I first started looking at PCPs? It was 10% YouTube and 90% user comments and experiences. With mucho more weight given to those who shelled out the coin to play. “Due diligence” is required to achieve a positive experience with most endeavors…

 

[Danman]

I'll never forget the episode of "Airgun Detectives" where the guy reviews a Gamo Bone Collector. He is honest in his reviews and goes on to say how the first 2 he received to test were junk!?! Gamo (or the dealer) clearly didn't test/tune the guns before sending it for the review. I wonder how many other guns sent for reviews ARE pulled out and perfected before going out to reviewers. Secondly...if there are problems, are the viewers made aware of them...sponsored video?... Probably not! When I bought my Ghost (by far the most expensive of my 4 air rifles) I was of the mindset I'd send it right back if it wouldnt group like a 3K pcp should....It/I had some hiccups along the way but sometimes expectations are to high for sure. Even if a gun was built like a Lazer there is still: Human error, poor ammo, wind, temperature, your target bailing last second, etc. If it wasn't a challenge it wouldn't be any fun!

 

[Farmplinker2]

I'm reminded of a gun writer who explained why he got so many sub-MOA guns. He said he didn't shoot like most people. He let the barrel cool down to ambient temperature between shots, since that's what would often happen while hunting (he pointed out that of the animal was running, the rifle's base accuracy didn't matter). That didn't set well with certain people, since that wasn't how they checked their rifles.
That's a legit guy, not cherry-picking groups, or throwing out uncalled flyers. If someone wanted to make a rifle look good...

 

[hameditor]

I'll never forget the episode of "Airgun Detectives" where the guy reviews a Gamo Bone Collector. He is honest in his reviews and goes on to say how the first 2 he received to test were junk!?! Gamo (or the dealer) clearly didn't test/tune the guns before sending it for the review. I wonder how many other guns sent for reviews ARE pulled out and perfected before going out to reviewers. Secondly...if there are problems, are the viewers made aware of them...sponsored video?... Probably not! When I bought my Ghost (by far the most expensive of my 4 air rifles) I was of the mindset I'd send it right back if it wouldnt group like a 3K pcp should....It/I had some hiccups along the way but sometimes expectations are to high for sure. Even if a gun was built like a Lazer there is still: Human error, poor ammo, wind, temperature, your target bailing last second, etc. If it wasn't a challenge it wouldn't be any fun!

Speaking just for HAM, the majority of guns we receive are NOT specially-selected by the manufacturer or distributor. Mostly they arrive unopened, direct from the factory.

 

[Stubbers]

#1) Weighing and sorting pellets will vastly improve your ES in any given string. I have heard JTS/AEA aren't as imperative when it comes to weight/sorting but JSB/H&N ect all really need this. A .1 gr difference in projectile weight can have a .5-1fps difference at the muzzle. An example I can give anecdotally is 33.95gr jsb, their tins for me came varied in weight when I measured from 32.5 to 34.6, meaning this weight distribution alone can cause (for me) upwards of 21 FPS spread. Sorting / weighing these in two groups at 32.5-33.5 and 33.6-34.6 means that I cut that distribution of weight in half, thus my spread also reduced by a great amount. Which allowed me the following string of .56% ES @ 5 fps.



Without weighing and sorting, the best ES I could achieve was closer to ~15 fps. and was more or less luck of the draw, such as did I grab a 32.5gr and a 34.5gr pellet in that same string?

#2) Valve lift limiters. I no longer really use these but my guns are setup to accept them. I just change tune too much to be bothered, but at a competition level, or shooting BR at 100yd, I would absolutely use them. Even tuned to ~97% of your airguns plateau for efficiency and consistency, your hammer strike energy may vary a tiny amount from shot to shot, your regulators pressure may vary from shot to shot. Having a physical means which limits your poppets lift from the valve seat, ensures that every shot will be far more repeatable than a gun without such means. FX Impacts have such means. The above string used such means.

#3) Cherry picked. What you see on youtube is more than likely cherry picked for views, hyperbole gets clicks, clicks generate revenue. Rarely will the content creator put aside his financial incentives and ego to show lack luster strings, groups, or shortcomings of any product they're being paid to review for you. Take most of what you see on youtube with a grain of salt if the premise of the video is content creation, opposed to documentation.

-Matt

 

[pan60]

That video was what hooked me on the Atomic… And am still hooked… The only guns to survive that abuse were the Atomic and Evol, the FX if I recall became a lamp…

yep I pick up the BRK and the EVOL after I seen that.
I had planned on the EVOL before but that just made the differance and made me take another look at the BRK.

 

[Ezana4CE]

Best thing I can say on the topic - because this is a heavily biased and opinionated subject - is know who you're watching. They need to know what they're talking about. Screw how many subscribers and views they have.

 

[Moose]

The following is from personal experience I’m not a tuner I’ve just owned too many Airguns . I have a really good friend that recently bought his first regulated gun. The gun is really accurate however he’s not been very happy with it. The gun is pellet on pellet on paper but the numbers were bothering him. Curiosity got me to ask some questions. Come to find out that his gun only has a 25 foot spread which to me is excellent but I’ve owned many regulated guns and know what to expect. Honestly I’m ok with a 40 foot spread because the distances I shoot 40 spread makes no difference. My buddy has been watching YouTube and comparing doctored extreme spreads of 5 feet. I’m not saying it’s impossible but most guns unless you spend a week on and have the capability of multiple dials and knobs will never give you 5 foot spread. They won’t tell you that they sorted and weighed pellets or any of the details. All the YouTube world is trying to do is sell a gun. Also variables in the chronograph makes a huge difference as well. My fx chronograph isn’t very consistent but it’s good enough. Nate Chronographs on the other hand have proven very consistent. Other things such as humidity, pellet consistency, temperature, air pressure all play a big role. The point is don’t sweat the #s. Shoot at paper and see the results. You’ll know when your regulator is bad believe me it’s obvious.

Seems like your friend thinks that if he gets a high-end air gun, it makes him a high-end shooter. He may have not put the time in to have the experience and theoretical knowledge to get the outcome he would like. He may be getting his expectations from those around him and is not at the stage that he can identify what is important. I pay no attention to humidity, pellet consistency, temperature, air pressure or muzzle velocity for the majority of my shooting. Nor do I teach any of this to new shooters. Their goal is to learn how to shoot and enjoy the sport, not to get blown out by the details. I don't know the skills of your friend, but he may need to learn personally why he is not getting the results he wants, rather than getting the answers from others for nothing. This may identify the flaw of too skilled of teachers showing new shooters all the details of shooting. I enjoy the theoretical conversations here, but I chose to not introduce this thinking to 5-year-old kids. I agree that they should not sweat the #s. Shoot at paper and see the results. This may turn out to be a very good thread!

 

[Moose]

Airguns are hard to shoot at long range. 75 yards and out so always have realistic expectations. It takes practice to become a good air rifle shooter. I have tuned lots of airguns and getting a tight Es is possible. To compete at a pro level your rifle should have a Es of 7 or under. My 100 yard Red Panda 30 has a SD of 0.67 and a ES of 2 so yea its possible. Picture below so you know its possible. It takes time to become good at anything and consistency is key.

I agree with you that air guns are hard to shoot at long range. I personally chose not to shoot these distances for that reason. I am not familiar with the Es abbreviation. I have witnessed a lot of time spent on a sport practicing and no improvement. Knowledge of the basics theory and the ability to apply that knowledge may be more important. I have taught many kids to shoot accurately in their very first attempt.

 

[Moose]

the only YouTube video that ever pushed me over the edge on a gun was see our fellow forum member drag it behind his jeep and chunk it of the mountain top cause he didnt want to toat em them pick up the surviver and hunt some squirrel to gain his energy after the hick and so as not to starve before he could get back home.

I have seen a few YT videos when a guy was testing a scope mount with a half-filled water bottle. Quite the scientific test method! Would anyone allow that test to be performed on the competition rigs? I think they should test optical laser surgery equipment like that and then do surgery on the tester with it! If it is precision equipment, treat it like precision equipment. Sounds like the hick could have accomplished the same thing with a stick!

 

[Moose]

I'll never forget the episode of "Airgun Detectives" where the guy reviews a Gamo Bone Collector. He is honest in his reviews and goes on to say how the first 2 he received to test were junk!?! Gamo (or the dealer) clearly didn't test/tune the guns before sending it for the review. I wonder how many other guns sent for reviews ARE pulled out and perfected before going out to reviewers. Secondly...if there are problems, are the viewers made aware of them...sponsored video?... Probably not! When I bought my Ghost (by far the most expensive of my 4 air rifles) I was of the mindset I'd send it right back if it wouldnt group like a 3K pcp should....It/I had some hiccups along the way but sometimes expectations are to high for sure. Even if a gun was built like a Lazer there is still: Human error, poor ammo, wind, temperature, your target bailing last second, etc. If it wasn't a challenge it wouldn't be any fun!

The parameters of the review should be stated. If he was reviewing how the product performed direct from the factory, it may have been an honest review. If he was reviewing a unit that may have been tuned, that may be a different review. Gotta love that human input!