Real-World Airgun Use vs. YouTube Theory

[PasadenaMike]

There’s a lot of talk online—especially from YouTubers—about things like extreme spread, standard deviation, shot count, and all that. But in the real world, especially in the field, the target tells you everything you need to know. If the pellets are grouping, the gun is in its sweet spot. If they start to drop off, you’re out of it. Simple as that.

For a long time, I was shooting my Talon P in what I thought was its sweet spot—about 8 good shots with a spread of 26 FPS from 2400 to 2000 PSI. That worked great, and I stuck with it.

But today changed everything. I had a chance to shoot out on some BLM land where I finally had space to stretch things out. I started by shooting in my usual sweet spot, then just kept going. To my surprise, the point of impact stayed consistent all the way down to 1600 PSI. I wasn’t expecting that.

Now I’ve got a usable range from 3000 (or 2800 after cool-down from filling) down to 1600 PSI, with maybe 25 usable shots—honestly, I lost count. It’s shooting at “I don’t care” FPS, with a standard deviation of “I don’t care,” and an extreme spread of . All I know is, it’ll kill ground squirrels at 50 yards, and that’s what matters to me.

Sure, if I’m trying to stretch it to 100 yards, those numbers might start to matter. But for that kind of distance, I’ll just grab my .17 HMR—it’s made for it. The Talon P gets the job done where it counts.

127 yards dead in its tracks not with an airgun . I did get one with the talon p but it ran off. My car is a little speck in the back. That’s where I had set up

 

[Ezana4CE]

There’s a lot of talk online—especially from YouTubers—about things like extreme spread, standard deviation, shot count, and all that. But in the real world, especially in the field, the target tells you everything you need to know. If the pellets are grouping, the gun is in its sweet spot. If they start to drop off, you’re out of it. Simple as that.

For a long time, I was shooting my Talon P in what I thought was its sweet spot—about 8 good shots with a spread of 26 FPS from 2400 to 2000 PSI. That worked great, and I stuck with it.

But today changed everything. I had a chance to shoot out on some BLM land where I finally had space to stretch things out. I started by shooting in my usual sweet spot, then just kept going. To my surprise, the point of impact stayed consistent all the way down to 1600 PSI. I wasn’t expecting that.

Now I’ve got a usable range from 3000 (or 2800 after cool-down from filling) down to 1600 PSI, with maybe 25 usable shots—honestly, I lost count. It’s shooting at “I don’t care” FPS, with a standard deviation of “I don’t care,” and an extreme spread of . All I know is, it’ll kill ground squirrels at 50 yards, and that’s what matters to me.

Sure, if I’m trying to stretch it to 100 yards, those numbers might start to matter. But for that kind of distance, I’ll just grab my .17 HMR—it’s made for it. The Talon P gets the job done where it counts.

127 yards dead in its tracks not with an airgun . I did get one with the talon p but it ran off. My car is a little speck in the back. That’s where I had set up

@PasadenaMike Now it sounds like you’re hunting with a rifle you’re in tune with. I learned a similar thing with my first Bulldog. It was stated by some folks that the gun was good for 10 shots. I got 14-15 from a 3000 psi fill using 81 grain Diabolo pellets from within 50 yards finished around 1500 psi. Would I shoot those 11-15th shots afield? It would really depend upon the target and distance to target.

With an unregulated air gun what needs to be known is the bullet weight, drop and holds at various reservoir pressure levels and distances, and it doesn’t hurt to have an idea of your velocity range. Recording this info in your DOPE is what makes this sort of shooting awesome to be able to do in the field once you prove the repeatability of the process. I think it’s also important to understand how penetration is affected at lower pressures and velocities. I don’t know what YouTube theory is, but what happens afield has been one of my best teachers when it comes to airguns. I think that ES and SD is more of a concern for tuned regulated guns when you’re super concerned about consistency. I think it applies more to target shooters and competitors. When hunting, knowing what your gun will do with your chosen scope/ammo combo at various temperatures and reservoir pressure levels trumps tight chrono stats once you have it set to a satisfactory hammer spring setting for repeatable accuracy within your hunting distances (range) and your usable reservoir pressure range. That’s my take on it based upon my understanding. It sounds like you’re getting your money’s worth from your Talon P.

 

[BenjeneerJohn]

I love seeing a standard deviation of 1. I also understand that it doesn't equal accuracy.

If you plug your high and low velocity into a ballistic calculator you will see the impact of the velocity shift. Depending on the distance you are shooting at, a "large" velocity delta might not impact the point of aim/impact enough to matter.

Set a target up and shoot a full shot string. Watch the gauge and when you can see your group start to drop, you know your low pressure.

John

 

[SpindleB]

I'm with Mike, I play with spread but that is just to see how tight I can get it. My "tune" is always group regardless of any functional statistics. I have seen spread and group be essentially the same tune, my FX Smooth Twist (Bobcat, Boss, Royale) being the usual.

But my AirForce guns, spread and group generally diverge. Spread is usually 950+ FPS and group is generally 850 or so. The .25 like the 25-33 grain pellets. Above and below tend to be looser groups. Pellet choice is a big factor.

 

[Grunt64]

There’s a lot of talk online—especially from YouTubers—about things like extreme spread, standard deviation, shot count, and all that. But in the real world, especially in the field, the target tells you everything you need to know. If the pellets are grouping, the gun is in its sweet spot. If they start to drop off, you’re out of it. Simple as that.

For a long time, I was shooting my Talon P in what I thought was its sweet spot—about 8 good shots with a spread of 26 FPS from 2400 to 2000 PSI. That worked great, and I stuck with it.

But today changed everything. I had a chance to shoot out on some BLM land where I finally had space to stretch things out. I started by shooting in my usual sweet spot, then just kept going. To my surprise, the point of impact stayed consistent all the way down to 1600 PSI. I wasn’t expecting that.

Now I’ve got a usable range from 3000 (or 2800 after cool-down from filling) down to 1600 PSI, with maybe 25 usable shots—honestly, I lost count. It’s shooting at “I don’t care” FPS, with a standard deviation of “I don’t care,” and an extreme spread of . All I know is, it’ll kill ground squirrels at 50 yards, and that’s what matters to me.

Sure, if I’m trying to stretch it to 100 yards, those numbers might start to matter. But for that kind of distance, I’ll just grab my .17 HMR—it’s made for it. The Talon P gets the job done where it counts.

127 yards dead in its tracks not with an airgun . I did get one with the talon p but it ran off. My car is a little speck in the back. That’s where I had set up

I target shoot and hunt tethered and non-tethered with unregulated mid bores and I feel different about extreme spread etc. but I am shooting 100- 200 plus yards with 150gr. Also, ballistics become very important when making a tune that much tighter for me, also need to know the fpe at distance for hunting, Love the challenge that PCP'S give you over PB but, that's just me.

 

[PasadenaMike]

I target shoot and hunt tethered and non-tethered with unregulated mid bores and I feel different about extreme spread etc. but I am shooting 100- 200 plus yards with 150gr. Also, ballistics become very important when making a tune that much tighter for me, also need to know the fpe at distance for hunting, Love the challenge that PCP'S give you over PB but, that's just me.

100% agree with this especially for big game im assuming?

 

[Grunt64]

100% agree with this especially for big game im assuming?

The Talon looks like a lot of fun, I miss a small bore

 

[PasadenaMike]

The Talon looks like a lot of fun, I miss a small bore

Big bores are pretty much useless in CA so little guns are it for me.

 

[Grunt64]

Big bores are pretty much useless in CA so little guns are it for me.

Not allowed to hunt with them.?

 

[Grunt64]

100% agree with this especially for big game im assuming?

For me, the biggest animal I hunt is coyote.

 

[PasadenaMike]

Not allowed to hunt with them.?

Yeah we are not allowed big game with air. We have a ton of opportunities for small game, turkey, yotes and a couple strange goat species. I enjoy the ground squirrels

 

[Grunt64]

Yeah we are not allowed big game with air. We have a ton of opportunities for small game, turkey, yotes and a couple strange goat species. I enjoy the ground squirrels

I love ground squirrels but we hardly had any this year, fox and coyote put a hurting on them?

 

[Dogowski]

The Talon looks like a lot of fun, I miss a small bore

I miss my Recon SS i traded off a few months ago. Great rifle!

 

[Redbeard381]

There’s a lot of talk online—especially from YouTubers—about things like extreme spread, standard deviation, shot count, and all that. But in the real world, especially in the field, the target tells you everything you need to know. If the pellets are grouping, the gun is in its sweet spot. If they start to drop off, you’re out of it. Simple as that.

For a long time, I was shooting my Talon P in what I thought was its sweet spot—about 8 good shots with a spread of 26 FPS from 2400 to 2000 PSI. That worked great, and I stuck with it.

But today changed everything. I had a chance to shoot out on some BLM land where I finally had space to stretch things out. I started by shooting in my usual sweet spot, then just kept going. To my surprise, the point of impact stayed consistent all the way down to 1600 PSI. I wasn’t expecting that.

Now I’ve got a usable range from 3000 (or 2800 after cool-down from filling) down to 1600 PSI, with maybe 25 usable shots—honestly, I lost count. It’s shooting at “I don’t care” FPS, with a standard deviation of “I don’t care,” and an extreme spread of . All I know is, it’ll kill ground squirrels at 50 yards, and that’s what matters to me.

Sure, if I’m trying to stretch it to 100 yards, those numbers might start to matter. But for that kind of distance, I’ll just grab my .17 HMR—it’s made for it. The Talon P gets the job done where it counts.

127 yards dead in its tracks not with an airgun . I did get one with the talon p but it ran off. My car is a little speck in the back. That’s where I had set up

I agree with you regarding a functional tune. I start paying attention to the pressure, and # of shots when my groups tighten, or open up. Most of the time I lose my notes, so I just end up with whatever pellets groups best at xx starting pressure.

What power wheel setting and pellet shoots best in your TalonP? I literally just got one last week.

 

[Chief55]

Well Mike is not on so I will try to help. Mike shot Haydes for expansion using 2400, and I believe the power wheel was about 2. I get the way better groups with the JSB Exact King 25.39, even Barracudas. All of my Airforce guns like 2800. I don't think every gun is the same, but I like to start with the wheel set at 6.5 and I may go as high as 8.9 depending on what I am shooting. I believe that people are better served shooting what gives the best groups rather than gimmicky pellets. When you change pellet weights or brands the first shot usually goes a bit wild.

 

[SpindleB]

Well Mike is not on so I will try to help. Mike shot Haydes for expansion using 2400, and I believe the power wheel was about 2. I get the way better groups with the JSB Exact King 25.39, even Barracudas. All of my Airforce guns like 2800. I don't think every gun is the same, but I like to start with the wheel set at 6.5 and I may go as high as 8.9 depending on what I am shooting. I believe that people are better served shooting what gives the best groups rather than gimmicky pellets. When you change pellet weights or brands the first shot usually goes a bit wild.

2400psi and up is for the 12" barrel, TalonP, TalonSS and Escape. The longer barrels need less PSI as the pellet can stay under acceleration longer. So TalonP is going to use a lot of air to reach the velocities you want. Cranking up that starting pressure is the easiest route.

A lot of options available to longer barrels have little effect on 12" barrel. Heavy Hammer, heavy spring, high flow valves, regulators and plenums are great on 18" and 24" barrels. little effect on 12" barrel guns.

Take your lightest pellet and get the velocity range you want. That is your low power wheel setting, like 0-2, then tune your heavier pellets with the power wheel at progressively higher settings, hopefully maintaining velocity. Buddy bottles can be a configured for different PSI and different pellet weights and leave the Power wheel alone.

You can regulate the TalonP. TalonP and Escape use 5/8-14 threads (or did) for the bottle. If you want to regulate and use a 4500psi bottle you can change to a Condor valve with M18-1.5 thread.

Huben Power (highly recommended) makes multiple regulators specifically for AirForce guns. Built in tophat so the added LOP is only around 2". Then set the regulator to your desired velocity and have a lot more shots at a very stable pressure.

My Condor and Talons all have Huben Power regulators and (silly for TalonP) very large bottles. But that consistent pressure and 4500psi fill are totally worth the added cost and LOP.

4500 PSI you can go to a shorter bottle and get some of the added LOP back.

I have 3 additional regulated setups for my guns. Each with different pressure. I set my power wheel at 4 and swap setups for more or less velocity.