Ghost Ghost HP .22 Light Hammer Spring - TUNE TRIALS

[IRBent]

So Tristan over at Atlas Airguns sent me a light hammer spring for my Ghost HP and it arrived this today. A quick change out and I began a new tune. My initial though was, set the PW to MIN and start cranking the Reg up until I can shoot the el Cheapo Crosman Premiers @ 900fps. Then toss the 18gr JSBs in and turn the power wheel up to achieve the desired speed, then try the same with the MRDs. What I learned was that lighter spring, .046" vs the .051" that came stock, wasn't hitting the hammer hard enough to do the trick with the power wheel at MIN. Tomorrow I'll reverse engineer that idea and start with the MRDs and MAX power wheel, then see if lowering the power wheel will allow me to drop as low as the 14.3gr Premiers. I will say that the lighter spring sure did tame the gun and the shot cycle. A nice little pffft and away the pellet went. Before it was puking excess air.

BTW, anybody know the max pressure that the Ghost's reg can handle?

 

[Solo1]

My 25 came at 150 i think so you should probably be good that far anyhow. My 25 is shooting 33.9 jsb @ 135 bar to 920 don’t remember hammer wheel off hand. Oh thats with the 51 spg

 

[AtlasAirguns]

The standard HP spring set around 80 bar (min or 90 bar may be better for the regulator (less stress on it). They are the best regulators out there but I would still prefer a rifle shooting lower on the reg if possible. I think last we talked you had the regulator at 110 with the standard spring. Let me know the current speeds you are getting on the 14.3.gr

Also post your wheel levels of possible for others

 

[IRBent]

The standard HP spring set around 80 bar (min or 90 bar may be better for the regulator (less stress on it). They are the best regulators out there but I would still prefer a rifle shooting lower on the reg if possible. I think last we talked you had the regulator at 110 with the standard spring. Let me know the current speeds you are getting on the 14.3.gr

Also post your wheel levels of possible for others

The factory spring, .051", with the reg @ 110 and the 18.13 JSBs were coming out hot 980-1000fps) with the PW on MIN. The shot also sounded really airy and wasteful, but being new to this, it could be wrong. The 25gr JSBs were about spot on, 890ish give or take no matter where the power wheel was set.

 

[Franklink]

@IRBent,

This is a long barreled Ghost HP I presume?

 

[IRBent]

@IRBent,

This is a long barreled Ghost HP I presume?

Yes sir, 23 inch HP.

 

[Franklink]

You've likely seen it but in case you haven't....there was a thread a while back on one of the other forums where a guy wanted a low power tune for the 14.3grain 22s. I think his was a Carbine length barrel. But he had to mess with the stack in the regulator to get the fps down as low as he wanted. I think he figured his reg pressure was 55 or 60 BAR if I remember correctly. So there's that option, although it'd be even more trial and error for you.

If yours behaves like the review Ghost, as the reg pressure is increased, at some point the fps will actually come down. So you can investigate there too. Cost to going this route is that your first shots on a cold reg will be low fps.

My friend Bobby has the first Ghost in the US, and it has a heavy hammer like yours. We were able to get his down to sub20fpe with an even lighter than OEM hammer spring from ACE. I think it was 0.043" wire. I just went in to the store with OEM hammer springs and calipers and found one that was the same length, with similar OD and ID but thinner wire.

You've got the longer barrel, which will make taming it down harder.

 

[IRBent]

You've likely seen it but in case you haven't....there was a thread a while back on one of the other forums where a guy wanted a low power tune for the 14.3grain 22s. I think his was a Carbine length barrel. But he had to mess with the stack in the regulator to get the fps down as low as he wanted. I think he figured his reg pressure was 55 or 60 BAR if I remember correctly. So there's that option, although it'd be even more trial and error for you.

If yours behaves like the review Ghost, as the reg pressure is increased, at some point the fps will actually come down. So you can investigate there too. Cost to going this route is that your first shots on a cold reg will be low fps.

My friend Bobby has the first Ghost in the US, and it has a heavy hammer like yours. We were able to get his down to sub20fpe with an even lighter than OEM hammer spring from ACE. I think it was 0.043" wire. I just went in to the store with OEM hammer springs and calipers and found one that was the same length, with similar OD and ID but thinner wire.

You've got the longer barrel, which will make taming it down harder.

My goal isn't necessarily to tame it down for Premiers. Maybe it was or still is a pipe dream, but I was hoping that I could find a reg pressure with the lighter spring that would give the PW more spread, sending various pellets downrange @ 900fps. Heck, I may have been close before I swapped to the .047" spring. 110 bar, 18grs were 990-1000fps on MIN. MRDs went 880-890ish no matter where the wheel was set. Both sounded airy and wasteful though. Upon tossing the light spring in and the reg still at 110 bar and the PW at MIN, the Premiers came out maybe @ 600fps. I slowly turned up the reg and eventually saw what you mentioned, the velocity began to decrease. That's when I realized I had too much reg pressure and not enough hammer. So I decided to give up for now, and turned the PW up until the 18gr were @ 900fps and shoot a few groups. I went straight in, removed the bottle and turned the reg down with plans to start over this afternoon.

Takeaway: I believe the spring might be a bit too light for covering 14-25gr pellets at a single reg setting. However the shot cycle was well tamed without that airy wasteful sound. I liked what I saw, but didn't realize that the hammer wouldn't have enough umph to open the valve far enough even at 110 bar. It might do well if I adjust the PW up from MIN, which I never attempted until I saw extra reg pressure reduced velocity.

 

[Solo1]

If it helps my ghost 177 hp has a 47 spg now came with a 51 and im running the reg @ 80 bar power wheel has very little effect only near 5 and impushing 13.4 to 808

 

[IRBent]

If it helps my ghost 177 hp has a 47 spg now came with a 51 and im running the reg @ 80 bar power wheel has very little effect only near 5 and impushing 13.4 to 808

"Very little effect only near 5"? So it doesn't do anything until 5 on the PW or only up to 5? Based on what I saw, I'd guess the wheel started working once to 5.

 

[Franklink]

When the reg is low it doesnt matter how hard you hit the valve (hammer spring tension). The power output limiting factor is the low reg pressure.

With my "tune" in the .20 I can get a 300fps spread with just the MIN and MAX on the power wheel. But I'm running @ 140 bar. Penalty to going this route is that a cold reg shot is bout 40-50fps slow.

 

[Solo1]

"Very little effect only near 5"? So it doesn't do anything until 5 on the PW or only up to 5? Based on what I saw, I'd guess the wheel started working once to 5.

If i put on 5 i can move down 1 or 2 and get a 2 or 3 fps drop i wanted to have some movement cause its very close to 20 fpe if i fill to 250 bar. It will drop a couple fps on its own after say 20 shots. As frank says the system is built on higher reg pressures, even my revere is set at 140 bar, and i think daystate builds around that reg pressure 140-150 bar
With my 25 I’ve run into some problems. I had it at 130 bar to try to squeeze 50 shots out of the 580 bottle but im noticing a drop in velocity after 16-17 shots so i just bumper the pressure and lowered the hammer to see if i can stop it. @ 130 min-max was 100 fps swing

 

[Franklink]

There's nothing wrong with a low reg pressure. Shot strings likely to be more consistent that way actually.

Lots of comments from guys that the wheel doesn't change the fps much. If you want a gun where spinning the wheel has an effect (ie for larger differences in power output or different projectiles) than you'll need a higher reg pressure, and have to live with low fps shots from a cold regulator.
If you are only using the gun for one projectile with one purpose, the lowest reg that achieves that power is probably "best."

Some examples where it doesn't matter if spinning the wheel does much would be the UK market, where 12 fpe is the hard limit of power output. Or field target, where 12 or 20fpe is the hard limit.

 

[IRBent]

There's nothing wrong with a low reg pressure. Shot strings likely to be more consistent that way actually.

Lots of comments from guys that the wheel doesn't change the fps much. If you want a gun where spinning the wheel has an effect (ie for larger differences in power output or different projectiles) than you'll need a higher reg pressure, and have to live with low fps shots from a cold regulator.
If you are only using the gun for one projectile with one purpose, the lowest reg that achieves that power is probably "best."

Some examples where it doesn't matter if spinning the wheel does much would be the UK market, where 12 fpe is the hard limit of power output. Or field target, where 12 or 20fpe is the hard limit.

I completely follow you and have one of your posts on AGN open where you're discussing various reg pressures, wheel settings, and extending the little hammer set screw that contacts the valve.
I think it simply overran the hammer yesterday, too much pressure for the hammer to open the valve with the wheel on minimum. Think about it. 110bar with the .051" hammer spring and the 18gr were a bit hot. I left the reg at 110 and tossed in the light spring. It couldn't hit the valve hard enough on MIN, and rather than turn the wheel, I was cranking the reg up making matters worse. Yeah, the velocity did go up but minimally. Not until I started cranking on the power wheel did I see any real benefits. I'll start again later today if time allows, but this time with the PW at MAX. I might even dabble with a hardware store spring or shimming the light spring.

 

[Franklink]

Sounds like a good plan......as an aside, and based on your mentioning the stroke adjustment (threaded nose on the hammer). I've had multiple conversations with more recent Ghost owners and there hammers do not have that adjustable stroke/threaded nose. Remember, I received the Ghost back in Sept and the release date wasn't until mid-Oct, after EBR. What I refer to as the review Ghost is essentially a pre-production specimen.

I just wanted to get that out there in case you're thinking of playing with the stroke adjustment.

 

[IRBent]

Sounds like a good plan......as an aside, and based on your mentioning the stroke adjustment (threaded nose on the hammer). I've had multiple conversations with more recent Ghost owners and there hammers do not have that adjustable stroke/threaded nose. Remember, I received the Ghost back in Sept and the release date wasn't until mid-Oct, after EBR. What I refer to as the review Ghost is essentially a pre-production specimen.

I just wanted to get that out there in case you're thinking of playing with the stroke adjustment.

Thanks for the clarification. I've not looked at my hammer, but for some reason I was thinking I recall seeing that little paw with the 3 set screws that I believe you said controls the hammer travel distance.

 

[IRBent]

Sounds like a good plan......as an aside, and based on your mentioning the stroke adjustment (threaded nose on the hammer). I've had multiple conversations with more recent Ghost owners and there hammers do not have that adjustable stroke/threaded nose. Remember, I received the Ghost back in Sept and the release date wasn't until mid-Oct, after EBR. What I refer to as the review Ghost is essentially a pre-production specimen.

I just wanted to get that out there in case you're thinking of playing with the stroke adjustment.

Well, what started off as a good plan sorta got squirreled. But hey, that's who I am thanks to A.D.D. LOL

So, here's what went down instead. My reg was set at 105.7 bar to begin with and I loaded up some JSB 18.13 gr pellets and set the power wheel to MAX. The chart below is multiple shot averages, most all with the 1st shot deleted because as you pointed out, that 1st shot tends to be a low flier and I saw it happen the same here this afternoon.

As you can see the 18.13s were hot at 105.7 and with the PW on MAX. The chart shows me upping the reg, with hope that I might see @ 1050-1100fps on the 18s, then toss the 25.5 MRDs in and see 900fps. I got squirreled and began testing the 18s @ 118bar and on different PW settings. I think that one string averaging 901 was like 5 shots all at 901fps, rock solid. Keeping in mind what @Solo1 mentioned that PW 5 and below how not much happens in the way of velocity changes, I decided to test the Crosman Premiers once the 18s got down to PW 7 and they dropped below my preferred speed. As you can see the Premiers started out hot and fell right in line on PW 3. I then tested the 25.4gr MRDs with the PW on MAX and the chart shows they averaged 843, not too terribly out of line but still lower than I wanted so I bumped the reg up a tad from @ 117 to 123 bar. Another thing you pointed out, sometimes more reg pressure is less, as can be seen by the few extra bar and the resulting reduction in velocity. So I figured that I was over regged and the hammer spring couldn't overcome the pressure to open the valve long enough to push the MRDs to 900fps. I then asked myself if it's possible that 116-118 bar could have been too much for the hammer spring, so I dropped the reg way down to 98bar, 7 bar less than where I started and only lost 30fps on the 18gr JSB's initial velocity reading. This is about the time that a big storm blew up and the power went off in the neighborhood so I packed it in. All of this took less than 30 mins to test. I think I can see something good coming from this light .047" spring. I can already hear and feel the difference in the gun. The shot cycle is a much more tame pffft sound vs the heavy .051 spring probably hitting the valve too hard and sounding like a poooooooofffff.

STAY "TUNED" (PUN INTENDED).......... More to come.

Ammo Grains	Reg Bar	Power Wheel	Velocity FPS
18.13	105.7	MAX	974
18.13	118.8	MAX	1004
18.13	118.3	10	901
18.13	117.9	7	848
14.3	117.5	7	961
14.3	116.8	5	926
14.3	116.3	3	888
25.4 MRDs	116.9	MAX	843
25.4 MRDs	123.2	MAX	840
18.13	98.56	MAX	944

 

[AtlasAirguns]

Well, what started off as a good plan sorta got squirreled. But hey, that's who I am thanks to A.D.D. LOL

So, here's what went down instead. My reg was set at 105.7 bar to begin with and I loaded up some JSB 18.13 gr pellets and set the power wheel to MAX. The chart below is multiple shot averages, most all with the 1st shot deleted because as you pointed out, that 1st shot tends to be a low flier and I saw it happen the same here this afternoon.

As you can see the 18.13s were hot at 105.7 and with the PW on MAX. The chart shows me upping the reg, with hope that I might see @ 1050-1100fps on the 18s, then toss the 25.5 MRDs in and see 900fps. I got squirreled and began testing the 18s @ 118bar and on different PW settings. I think that one string averaging 901 was like 5 shots all at 901fps, rock solid. Keeping in mind what @Solo1 mentioned that PW 5 and below how not much happens in the way of velocity changes, I decided to test the Crosman Premiers once the 18s got down to PW 7 and they dropped below my preferred speed. As you can see the Premiers started out hot and fell right in line on PW 3. I then tested the 25.4gr MRDs with the PW on MAX and the chart shows they averaged 843, not too terribly out of line but still lower than I wanted so I bumped the reg up a tad from @ 117 to 123 bar. Another thing you pointed out, sometimes more reg pressure is less, as can be seen by the few extra bar and the resulting reduction in velocity. So I figured that I was over regged and the hammer spring couldn't overcome the pressure to open the valve long enough to push the MRDs to 900fps. I then asked myself if it's possible that 116-118 bar could have been too much for the hammer spring, so I dropped the reg way down to 98bar, 7 bar less than where I started and only lost 30fps on the 18gr JSB's initial velocity reading. This is about the time that a big storm blew up and the power went off in the neighborhood so I packed it in. All of this took less than 30 mins to test. I think I can see something good coming from this light .047" spring. I can already hear and feel the difference in the gun. The shot cycle is a much more tame pffft sound vs the heavy .051 spring probably hitting the valve too hard and sounding like a poooooooofffff.

STAY "TUNED" (PUN INTENDED).......... More to come.

Ammo Grains	Reg Bar	Power Wheel	Velocity FPS
18.13	105.7	MAX	974
18.13	118.8	MAX	1004
18.13	118.3	10	901
18.13	117.9	7	848
14.3	117.5	7	961
14.3	116.8	5	926
14.3	116.3	3	888
25.4 MRDs	116.9	MAX	843
25.4 MRDs	123.2	MAX	840
18.13	98.56	MAX	944

That is a nice break down. I would definitely like to see the 98.56 bar MIN settings but based on the above for the .22HP so far I would mess more around the 115-122bar bracket to shoot your three pellets. Much better than the high reg settings yesterday and less stress on the reg

 

[Solo1]

The ghost is definitely a different gun than an fx in the way you tune it. I like that it 2 simple adjustments but it doesn’t end up being simple.

 

[IRBent]

That is a nice break down. I would definitely like to see the 98.56 bar MIN settings but based on the above for the .22HP so far I would mess more around the 115-122bar bracket to shoot your three pellets. Much better than the high reg settings yesterday and less stress on the reg

Yeah, there may be a sweet spot in that range that might allow the MRDs to sore, even if it requires a washer or 2 behind that light spring.