Others Sub-MOA Barrels

[pan60]

Anyone try the Sub-MOA barrel on the mini yet? Impressions? I have too many expenses ahead of it right now but it’s on my list.

Car maintenance, Rifle Safe, HW98, Scope, finally the Sub-MOA barrel.

no but have be wondering the same thing
I am just not sure rather to get one or continue saving for another gun.
the thing for me is I use the mini for mostly pest work and it is so accurate I am not sure an improvement is really any advantage at the range I am doing most of my work?
I think you're better off just getting a new HPS MINI at least thats the news I keep giving to the wife.

 

[RicL]

Same but sometimes it’s just about having the best of the best.

 

[Woogie_man]

I am still waiting on the 22 caliber version to be coming out..... have been on the waiting list for quite a few months now..... and still nothing. I really hope these are actually going to come out soon.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

I am still waiting on the 22 caliber version to be coming out..... have been on the waiting list for quite a few months now..... and still nothing. I really hope these are actually going to come out soon.

Waiting with an invoice worked for me, though it is with a different caliber than you. It is hard for them to gauge production numbers without pre-orders or paid-in-full orders. What's more, there's a lot of folks, including manufacturer's, wanting these barrels for a lot of different airguns, not just AAA Evol's. That demand unfortunately creates a backlog for us all.

 

[Billm]

Waiting with an invoice worked for me, though it is with a different caliber than you. It is hard for them to gauge production numbers without pre-orders or paid-in-full orders. What's more, there's a lot of folks, including manufacturer's, wanting these barrels for a lot of different airguns, not just AAA Evol's. That demand unfortunately creates a backlog for us all.

What caliber did you get?

 

[Woogie_man]

Have offered to give them money for a barrel but they wont take it....... so on "the list" when they come in.

We get it that they are doing barrels for other rifles, brands and things like that. But then don't tell people that the product will be available in a few months! Heck I am technically still waiting on the 22 barrel for the Evol that I no longer have! Have been on that wait list since the start of all this. And even then I was told a time line of a few months, and no more than 3!

An easy answer is to just not give people a date period. By telling them product X is going to be out in a few months... and then 14-18 months later there is still nothing..... well all that does is just makes people mad and walk away from your company and brand.

 

[Gear_Junkie]

Have offered to give them money for a barrel but they wont take it....... so on "the list" when they come in.

We get it that they are doing barrels for other rifles, brands and things like that. But then don't tell people that the product will be available in a few months! Heck I am technically still waiting on the 22 barrel for the Evol that I no longer have! Have been on that wait list since the start of all this. And even then I was told a time line of a few months, and no more than 3!

An easy answer is to just not give people a date period. By telling them product X is going to be out in a few months... and then 14-18 months later there is still nothing..... well all that does is just makes people mad and walk away from your company and brand.

Exactly! I was really wanting a 15" .22cal EVOL and was told that they would be available in a few months. This was back in August 2024. I checked a couple more times over the next year and was told similar timeframes. They never showed up.

At this point, I just don't have a lot of confidence in the brand. The exact rifle that I wanted came up used, in ridiculously good condition and at a great price. I waffled over it but ultimately passed on it because of this.

 

[ctshooter]

Well I bought a SubMOA 10" barrel kit directly from Tom for my AAA .22 Mini and I've been waiting near 2 months now to get it shipped. I got email a week in that he was waiting for some anodize and would then build and ship it. Last I've heard from him with weekly emails.

I love Tom's products but I don't see how his business model hasn't put him out of business many times over. It's like he cares and doesn't give a poop about his customer at the same time.

Very frustrating.

EDIT: I finally had some communications with Tom. The guy does care but he's stretched way too thin. Apparently some issues with the barrels and waiting for some new ones. I know the SubMOA barrel process is time consuming from speaking with Darren so lead time is high.

 

[pan60]

Well I bought a SubMOA 10" barrel kit directly from Tom for my AAA .22 Mini and I've been waiting near 2 months now to get it shipped. I got email a week in that he was waiting for some anodize and would then build and ship it. Last I've heard from him with weekly emails.

I love Tom's products but I don't see how his business model hasn't put him out of business many times over. It's like he cares and doesn't give a poop about his customer at the same time.

Very frustrating.

I think he cares he is just run to thin.
at least thats my two cents.

 

[Billm]

Well I bought a SubMOA 10" barrel kit directly from Tom for my AAA .22 Mini and I've been waiting near 2 months now to get it shipped. I got email a week in that he was waiting for some anodize and would then build and ship it. Last I've heard from him with weekly emails.

I love Tom's products but I don't see how his business model hasn't put him out of business many times over. It's like he cares and doesn't give a poop about his customer at the same time.

Very frustrating.

I sent him a dm asking him to comment on my two sub-MOA barrels. He did not respond. I’m sure he’s busy, but!

 

[Solo1]

I sent him a dm asking him to comment on my two sub-MOA barrels. He did not respond. I’m sure he’s busy, but!

Well remember he asked about my barrel where i got it and never said anything more?

 

[Woogie_man]

Well I bought a SubMOA 10" barrel kit directly from Tom for my AAA .22 Mini and I've been waiting near 2 months now to get it shipped. I got email a week in that he was waiting for some anodize and would then build and ship it. Last I've heard from him with weekly emails.

I love Tom's products but I don't see how his business model hasn't put him out of business many times over. It's like he cares and doesn't give a poop about his customer at the same time.

Very frustrating.

Couldn't agree more! Tom seems like he really does care, and quite a bit honestly. But it is like there are to many things in the fire at one point and they are getting away.

Honestly there really are not many people over on AGN or other places really talking about the Evol line. Heck there have been two used guns over on AOA for a few weeks now.

 

[Peskådot671]

I just noticed AoA doesn't have the Paradigm on their site anymore. I also received an email from Steve Corcoran saying that he won't be doing wholesale work anymore. Sad.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

I just noticed AoA doesn't have the Paradigm on their site anymore. I also received an email from Steve Corcoran saying that he won't be doing wholesale work anymore. Sad.

That in-stock Paradigm had been there quite a while, and I'm surprised that it stayed on the shelf that long. Because it did sit without selling for so long was probably the reason for discontinuing that particular model.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

This Sub-MOA SuperLite barrel shoots great on my Magnon. Current testing indicates it will definitely be producing sub-moa groups at 100 neters and beyond. Currently, both JSB 50.15 grain.pellets and RMR 45 grain slugs produce superb long range accuracy, even with the short range 3 power Primary Arms SLX MicroPrism mounted. I'm going to have to put a high power scope on here to showcase its true potential.

 

[ctshooter]

I sent him a dm asking him to comment on my two sub-MOA barrels. He did not respond. I’m sure he’s busy, but!

I did just receive my barrel this past weekend. Have only had a chance to mount it and shoot a mag so no reports yet.

 

[American Air Arms]

Guys, I do appreciate your patience and do give a p**P. Barrel manufacturing has been a most challenging endeavor. Early on, we had some real shit slip through. We have had several challenges to overcome before these early problems could be completely eliminated. Now that we have overcome, and installed in a multi-tiered QC program, the barrel line is moving well without daily setbacks.

Even so, it is a complicated and multi-step process that has no allowance for errors. There are no fast barrel makers and now I understand why.

 

[Billm]

Guys, I do appreciate your patience and do give a p**P. Barrel manufacturing has been a most challenging endeavor. Early on, we had some real shit slip through. We have had several challenges to overcome before these early problems could be completely eliminated. Now that we have overcome, and installed in a multi-tiered QC program, the barrel line is moving well without daily setbacks.

Even so, it is a complicated and multi-step process that has no allowance for errors. There are no fast barrel makers and now I understand why.

Well, I bought a Sonoran .30, because it has a Sub-MOA barrel. I shot it and was very impressed with the accuracy. Then it seemed like it would foul relatively quickly and the accuracy would fall apart. I put a bore scope down it and wasn’t impressed with the deep serrations across the lands. I admit, I got fixated on the bore scope and another forum/thread discussing the same tooling marks and ignored my actual real world accuracy. AOA stepped up and replaced the barrel. The barrel shipped a week later than I was told it would ship, because it needed more polishing. That made me think that the they had taken another barrel with the same tooling marks and cycled it through a vertical lapping machine a lot of times. I say that because the lands in the second barrel are barely perceptible. The truth is, I don’t know that it really matters with either barrel. If you look at the attached bore shots, you would never know that they were both manufactured by Sub-MOA to the same specs. I’ve shot sub 1/2 MOA 101yd groups with both barrels in no wind conditions, with off the shelf pellets. I’m pretty sure I’ve shot .3” 101yd groups with at least one of the barrels. I’m considering selling my Sonoran, not because I’m unhappy with it, but because I really want to buy The AAA HPS benchrest rifle in .30 when it’s available. I’ve spoken to several AAA owners and they all praise the workmanship and quality of Toms rifles. Tristian’s video of Tom’s business left a positive impression too. Looking at my real world results with the Sub-MOA barrel and marrying that to a purpose built rifle should be quite a package. The first two photos are the second barrel, the third is the first barrel and then several 1/2 MOA groups with different pellets- shows that they are both very capable barrels. I’m only posting this, because in some of my previous posts I’ve been pretty hard on Sub-MOA and I wanted update/clarify my opinion.

 

[American Air Arms]

Well, I bought a Sonoran .30, because it has a Sub-MOA barrel. I shot it and was very impressed with the accuracy. Then it seemed like it would foul relatively quickly and the accuracy would fall apart. I put a bore scope down it and wasn’t impressed with the deep serrations across the lands. I admit I got fixated on the bore scope and another forum/thread discussing the same tooling marks and ignored my actual real world accuracy. AOA stepped up and replaced the barrel. The barrel shipped a week later than I was told it would ship, because it needed more polishing. That made me think that the they had taken another barrel with the same tooling marks and cycled it through a vertical lapping machine a lot of times. I say that because the lands in the second barrel are barely perceptible. The truth is, I don’t know that it really matters with either barrel. If you look at the attached bore shots, you would never know that they were both manufactured by Sub-MOA to the same specs. I’ve shot sub 1/2 MOA 101yd groups with both barrels in no wind conditions, with off the shelf pellets. I’m pretty sure I’ve shot .3” 101yd groups with at least one of the barrels. I’m considering selling my Sonoran, not because I’m unhappy with it, but because I really want to buy The AAA HPS benchrest rifle in .30 when it’s available. I’ve spoken to several AAA owners and they all praise the workmanship and quality of Toms rifles. Tristian’s video of To s business left a positive impression too. Looking at my real world results with the Sub-MOA barrel and marrying that to a purpose built rifle should be quite a package. The first two obit are the second barrel, the third is the first barrel and then several 1/2 MOA groups with different pellets- shows that they are both very capable barrels. I’m only posting this, because in some of my previous posts I’ve been pretty hard on Sub-MOA and I wanted update/clarify my opinion.
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Bill,

We changed the method of honing which gave us a much better bore, this advantage allowed the move to a tighter bore which equates to shallower lands.

A single point cut rifled barrels will improve with a proper lead lap done by hand. Something that all AAA barrels get here at our shop.

The machine lap works well, but to perform at the top levels, their is no alternative to the feel of a good gunsmith.

 

[Billm]

Bill,

We changed the method of honing which gave us a much better bore, this that advantage the moved to a tighter bore was made which gives equates to shallower lands.

A single point cut rifled barrels will improve with a proper lead lap done by hand. Something that all AAA barrels get here at our shop.

The machine lap works well, but to perform at the top levels, there is no alternative to the feel of a good gunsmith.

Is my second barrel the newer method?