Advertised Accuracy

[Franklink]

Recently got these in my email inbox and found them interesting...

Airforce is advertising 1" @ 50 yards from their short-barreled variants. And 1" @ 75 yards from some of their longer-barreled guns. Note "advertised" not "guaranteed." Usually we see much more general claims of accuracy, like "capable of the benchrest performance demanded by high-level competitors," or something equally non-descript. BUT, to see an actual quantifiable claim like this is.....again, interesting.

I own three Airforce barrels: in .20, .22, and .25. The .20 and .22 are certainly capable of what they're claiming, of course after tuning and some barrel polishing, and in ideal conditions (low or no wind) etc. The .25 might be as well, but I've only ever run cast slugs through it and they're the accuracy limiting factor. The .20 AF barrel actually shot a perfect score at a field target match last summer (albeit after being fitted to a different gun) but the barrel itself is indeed accurate to their claimed level.

Hoping this doesn't become an Airforce-only discussion, but rather an industry as a whole conversation......So what do we think of their advertising claims? In my opinion, this quantifiable accuracy claim is a bit of an outlier for what we usually see from the mass manufacturers of airguns, even at the highest end of the $$$ spectrum.

(and yes, this is somewhat of an off-shoot from this conversation: Realistic Expectations )

 

[Scriv]

The firearms industry has had some shops that offer accuracy guarantees, Les Baer comes to mind. Recently, I purchased a Wilson combat produced pistol where his shop went to far as to tell me what components were used to build the ammo that produced the test target. Cooper arms used to have such a thing as well if I recall correctly. I'm thinking that if, and they should, offer accuracy guarantees that they should recommend a pellet to begin testing with. I have no experience with the AF rifles at all, and honestly, it's because I can't wrap my head around laying my face on something that has 3000 pounds of pressure in it.

 

[Billm]

My TalonP .25 is very accurate off the bench at 50yds with JSB pellets. In my opinion. AirForce is probably safe with their Talon Post. But, I think most PCPs are capable of 1” at 50yds nowadays. Airguns are a funny product, it seems to me that under a certain price the velocity is the marketing pitch and then above a certain price boundary “advertised” velocity holds no value to the targeted buyer and those buyers assume the higher priced Airguns have the accuracy “potential” needed. Lots of springers proudly advertise their near supersonic rifles. In the seventies when pellet flight characteristics/knowledge and chronographs were not abundant that would have been a huge selling point for everyone. Of course back then springers weren’t capable of 1100fps with alloy pellets. Nowadays it just separates the inexperienced buyer from the experienced buyer and yet it’s done by a lot of manufacturers that know better.

 

[pan60]

I say if they choose to put their money where their mouth is so to speak as in offer a accuracy guarantee a true unconditional guarantee them I have no issue.
but I doubt that so its all in question and we no to get the most you have to put some work in.
som companies will do it but you will pay.

 

[Danman]

I say if they choose to put their money where their mouth is so to speak as in offer a accuracy guarantee a true unconditional guarantee them I have no issue.
but I doubt that so its all in question and we no to get the most you have to put some work in.
som companies will do it but you will pay.

True, Raw pcps come to mind when Martin ran the show. You knew whatever you bought would/should be above average accuracy, you knew what ammo it would prefer, all you had to do was order one, wait, and then pay up when it was built.
AirArms rifles are generally silly accurate out of the box, and AA knows it (and aren't afraid to talk about it).
I own a springer & pcp from them and can verify, but they never put a quantifiable number to the expected accuracy.
Probably avoids some headaches and unhappy customer phone calls, i can only imagine.

 

[Roamin Greco 1]

To me, this is refreshing! I have seen accuracy guarantees from powderburner rifle brands such as Weatherby and Savange and many of the premium brands.

In my view, it's much better for airgunners to have manufacturers give accuracy guarantees instead of unrealistic velocity promises.

However, what is the group being promised? 3 shots, 5 shots, 10 shots? In the powder burner world it used to be a deer rifle capable of 5 shots in an inch or less was something really special. Wonder what it would be for the Talon?

 

[PapaT]

Daisy sends the sheet from their barrel test with 499b guns. You can see exactly what group they get, not just a claim, and with bbs to boot.

 

[Chief55]

All of the Airforce 12-inch barrels shoot great and have plenty of power. I believe the .20 is the most accurate as well.

The .300 TJ Condor barrel will do it.

The Benjamin M357 can do it with pellets.

I agree with Billm, I think most can do it, if you take the time and money to find what it likes to shoot, find a tune it likes and possibly polish it just a little.

I had a 6mm Remington with a glass bedded target barrel and jeweled action, smooth as silk, that could put them all in the same hole all day long at 100 yards which was very close range for that thing. It was an amazing gun.

 

[Pumacarl]

A big yawn, and no work or money involved to put it in print. Unless you actually have a bad barrel, and don't know what you're doing at all, then this was already the case. The problem with this ad isn't with what the gun can do, but with who can and actually will be able to get the accuracy. Air is not as plug and play as firearms, so a lot of new customers doing everything wrong, will be screaming about this claim soon, lol.

 

[brantosan]

Just remember talk is cheap, most especially for marketing types.

 

[Chief55]

I personally don't think honest groups involve anything that locks down the gun so it can't move. I feel like it should at least be shouldered by the shooter.

 

[Franklink]

Here are some photos of the Airforce 100 yard testing tunnel, courtesy of Tom Gaylord. I'm wondering out loud if the 1" @ 50/75 yards marketing/advertising claim has some basis back at this tunnel. Then a guy gets curious if they're grabbing 1/1, or 1/10, or 1/100 or ? off the production line and clamping them in that vice to verify.

The existence of this tunnel suggests that Airforce cares about accuracy, perhaps even more than manufacturers that don't have a 100 yard testing tunnel do.

Again, not wanting to make this all about Airforce, but rather trends in the industry. Personally, I think it'd be great if EVERY airgun manufacturer had such a tunnel, and if every gun came to us with an example of accuracy, and not one at the super short distances that we get from some of the retailers. Something like 50 yards would be a huge improvement. And 100 yards would be even better, for a high powered gun that might get shot that far. And since a 100 yard tunnel would take out the wind influences...might show what a gun is truly capable of.

 

[Franklink]

I personally don't think honest groups involve anything that locks down the gun so it can't move. I feel like it should at least be shouldered by the shooter.

I'm fine with clamped-in, from a removal-of-variables perspective, like manufacturer claims of accuracy, even though definable accuracy from airgun manufacturers like this is rare as hens teeth.

Once a gun is in the hands of a shooter/consumer, I'm much more impressed by accuracy results made when that shooter is actually handling the gun, versus having it clamped in a shooting jig. Cuz then its a combination of shooter skill and the rifles potential, both of which are required parts of real-world accuracy/precision.

 

[pan60]

very nice set up