.22 JSB .22 Hades vs AEA .22 Skirt Damage

[Billm]

I shoot mostly AEA Pellets now. Mainly because their .30 pellets shoot really well. I also shoot AEA in my .25 BRK Ghost. I shoot JSB Exact King Heavy MKII .25, mostly in my TalonP. My Barra 250z really liked JTS, which are the same as AEA.
My Alpha .22 really shoots well with Norma 17.6gr and they are cheap, but discontinued. The last couple of days I’ve been shooting JSB Hades 15.86gr, as the Alpha shoots those as well. But, I kept noticing lots of the skirts were crumpled.
Then someone else mentioned in another thread that someone else had stated that their JSB pellets had lots of damaged skirts recently. The conversation was along the lines of switching from JSB to AEA because of perceived quality.
I just opened a tin each of AEA and JSB Hades .22 pellets. I took out a random 5% (25 pellets) and placed them in a couple of my slug trays, so that I could see the skirts. Yes, I’m bored.
***After some thought, I edited the title to reflect the fact that we are probably discussing post production damage,as suggested by @Franklink ***

 

[FL22]

Isn’t JSB lead softer than AEA/JTS? Bill, I wonder if it’s shipping damage.

 

[Billm]

Isn’t JSB lead softer than AEA/JTS? Bill, I wonder if it’s shipping damage.

I think it is shipping damage and I’m not implying that anyone shouldn’t buy JSB. Just maybe look them over. Some of mine today were so crushed that opposite sides of the skirt were touching. I’ll look tomorrow to see if I left any of the bad ones outside. I’ve only purchased one brand of pellets that are so bad, that I will never finish the tins that I have.

 

[Billm]

I did consider buying that ZAN resizer, but I read some, not so good reviews.

 

[Billm]

When you look at the two trays side by side in that photo, the AEA (left side) look deformed. That is an optical illusion because the pellets wouldn’t sit uniform. There was only one bent skirt out of 25.

 

[Franklink]

Correct title:
Skirts From a Damaged Tin vs Skirts From a Non-Damaged Tin.

 

[Billm]

Correct title:
Skirts From a Damaged Tin vs Skirts From a Non-Damaged Tin.

Not the case at all. There is no damage to the tins. It’s actually three brand new tins of JSB hades that arrived in the same box, packed the same way from DonnyFl. They were packaged very well. That’s a bold statement considering there’s a photo of the perfectly intact JBS tin in the post. Fell free to highlight the damage to any of the tins.

 

[Billm]

These were five of the Hades I caught before loading into the mag yesterday. I only shot 54 pellets and so that’s a greater than 10% defect rate. It’s just a fact.

 

[Billm]

The .22 AEA pellets arrived packed in the same way and I. The same box. There’s a reason that’s there numerous posts by different people on different forums about the need for less sorting of AEA pellets vs JSB.

 

[Franklink]

I don't mean the actual metal/tin is damaged. With mangled skirts like that, that "tin of pellets" is a damaged tin of pellets, plain and simple. This isn't a brand vs brand situation.

 

[FL22]

There is no damage to the tins.

I promise that I’m not trying to badger you, but isn’t the tin’s tinsel strength greater than that of pellets?

I’m just gonna say it, bubble wrap is BS and Pyramid sets the gold standard in pellet packing just like AOA sets the gold standard for packing a used Airgun.

That has been my experience many times over.

 

[Billm]

I promise that I’m not trying to badger you, but isn’t the tin’s tinsel strength greater than that of pellets?

I’m just gonna say it, bubble wrap is BS and Pyramid sets the gold standard in pellet packing just like AOA sets the gold standard for packing a used Airgun.

That has been my experience many times over.

The secret to shipping anything safely is ensure that contents cannot move around . Most shipping damage is caused by the contents moving around and not by external impact. That supports what you and Cole are getting at. But, in this case it doesn’t matter how well you pack the tins , the fact that the pellets are loose, there will be damage. But,that is an issue for the manufacturer. The AEA pellets travel more than double the distance to arrive in the USA and yet arrive with fewer damaged skirts. Softer lead could be part of the issue, but so could the volume of the tin. It could be as simple a fix as to use a slightly smaller tin or slightly thicker foam pad. Most of you guys have both types of pellets, open a new tin of each and tell me which has more damaged skirts. I’m not saying the skirts are damaged during production, but no amount of external packaging will resolve the issue. AEA apparently has somewhat resolved it, or at least to a greater extent.

 

[Pumacarl]

Anything can and will happen. I don't really know what to make of this thread but I will file it away as another data point. My situation is that I bought a ton of JSB pellets quite a few years ago and I haven't seen any of the really bad tins yet. Hades, at least in .30, shoot about the same as the 45 and 50 sizes and always look great. All of my .22 sizes that I bought are pre-covid, except for 20 tins that I bought from CTairgunner and I traded most of those away for a scope. I love JSB. It is obvious, that starting with COVID, they have had some problems keeping up the quality. I have been mostly buying their slugs lately and they are just about perfect to me. I don't have anything but faith that JSB will back as number one in pellets solely because it is the heritage of that area to do the best. It's not just about making money to them, there is a history. And they use their own products, unlike the workers at AEA or JTS. It sounds naive even to me but I'm going with it. I am playing the long game. I have already seen discussions about a batch of the 50.1 AEA .30's not shooting as well as the first run, which seems to have been corrected. Once AEA has worn out all of their original dies and are on a replacement schedule like longtime pellets manufacturers, then I will be interested in how they shoot. At that point, someone else might show up too. It never ends. I like the softer lead that JSB uses better, regardless. Whether it deforms easier or not. I stopped using the CPD pellet years ago and AEA lead reminds me of it. To top it all off, I had bought a sleeve of the original 50.1 AEA .30 pellets that looked absolutely perfect, and weighed perfectly, and my Paradigm still shot better with JSB.

I think these posts are very important though. Everyone has to be held accountable when they screw up. Just like they should be praised when they do it right. Otherwise nothing changes, and nobody learns anything. I originally sought out forums to learn, and still am. I learned today that even though I like JSB, I won't be buying any .22 Hades anytime soon, lol!

 

[Franklink]

Causation versus correlation.



Visible damage to a pellet container is an indicator of potential damage to the contents. Visible damage to the container isnt required for the contents to be damaged.

An abrupt stop or rapid shift of inertia in a short amount of time (getting dropped when in Pyramid Air foam for example) can very easily damage the contents without denting the tin.

And yes, pellets made from soft lead are more prone to the type of damage im describing than pellets made from a hard antimony/lead alloy. Of course, the benefits of a soft lead pellet vs the negatives of a hard alloy pellet is a whole different topic of discussion.

Shipping and logistics from factory to end-user? Alloy > lead.
Barrel maintenance and long-term convenience of high-volume use? Lead > alloy.

 

[Billm]

As I’ve stated, I’m not stating that one shoots better than the other or that someone shouldn’t buy one or the other. Merely stating that there is evidence that a higher percentage of one brand of pellets are going to have damaged skirts and so be sure to inspect them. I don’t even claim to know how much they affect the accuracy. Pellets are supposed to form to the barrel and that is more likely to be true with softer lead. Would I be willing to pay more for pellets that are hand sorted and packaged like ZAN if I were a competitor - probably.

 

[FL22]

Most of you guys have both types of pellets, open a new tin of each and tell me which has more damaged skirts.

I have no problem with doing that, but since what I have did not ship in the same order, therefore did not receive the same treatment during shipping from PA the results will be at best skewed.


I will reply with the rest of the pics and another post.

 

[FL22]

I have no problem with doing that, but since what I have did not ship in the same order, therefore did not receive the same treatment during shipping from PA the results will be at best skewed.

View attachment 21336View attachment 21337View attachment 21338View attachment 21339View attachment 21340
I will reply with the rest of the pics and another post.

They all look great to me, Thanks to PA for excellent packing and UPS for not damaging the package .

 

[Billm]

Here are examples of pellet packaging from Pyramyd Air, DonnyFL and Utah Airguns. The only poorly shipped pellets were from AOA, they threw them in with the soft foam around my Ghost. Luckily they damaged the tins and not the gun. Of course Amazon is a whole other story

 

[FL22]

The only poorly shipped pellets were from AOA

I have had similar experiences, it is an area that I believe could be improved on.

 

[FL22]

Here is what I do with slightly bent skirts, I will then set them aside for plinking.

5 random good pellets that I then intentionally bent with my fingers, JSB soft lead.




I take my AV pellet pin, load them with one more on top and press it into the lid.






Certainly not going to win a match with them but not scrap or worse in the trash.