What'cha doing air gun related today?

[Cantona256]

I tinkered with the EQ a little more and bumped the speed up to 930fps..I’m liking this reg more and more. Tuning it today I saw it repeat 929.4fps 3 times in a row.

Anyways 99.9fpe and still getting at least 30 a fill. I haven’t actually shot all the way down to the reg but from what I’ve seen I reckon 33-35 a fill on current tune.

 

[Beanflip]

Sniping sparrows.

 

[Danman]

Replaced the ol pellet traps face....definitely about time, my staples weren't holding the paper targets on any more, more holes than wood Well see how long chip board lasts.....

 

[Cantona256]

I made this stupid video showing you can fit the 75gr Griffin boat tail slugs in the Karma EQ magazine. Which I think is pretty dang cool cuz every other .30cal gun I know has to single load them. Today I got 110FPE out of them just playing around. Still on my same tune that gives me at least 30 shots a fill with the 52gr Javelin’s doing 930(99.9FPE). The funny thing is that I can tell it still needs a little more hammer spring. The HS on this gun has a huge effect.

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[FL22]

Looking at the first black wolf used for sale at AoA that I’ve seen. Not happening for this guy!!! $3,295

 

[SpindleB]

Looking at the first black wolf used for sale at AoA that I’ve seen. Not happening for this guy!!! $3,295

It is just a pellet gun...
$2,500 more than a new Reximex Throne 2.
Differentiation between the 2 in the hands of 90% of the users is negligible. Competitive shooter, sure, that 1/4" is critical, stretch out to 100y and even bigger.

 

[FL22]

It is just a pellet gun...

Blaspheme .

I’m probably in the lower 30% lol.

 

[SpindleB]

Blaspheme .

I’m probably in the lower 30% lol.

Welcome to the party, pal.

I am a heretic in many aspects of my life.
For example
Apple is horrible
The Beatles are mundane

That list just keeps growing

 

[Hylander]

Shot my new Zelos for the first time
My first PCP ever.

 

[SpindleB]

Shot my new Zelos for the first time
My first PCP ever.

Zelos is an outstanding choice for first PCP. There are a bunch of sub $1,000 guns that are rock solid performers.

 

[nightplinkers]

Been working a permission at a private airport for last couple months. Recently activity picked back up after they cut-n-bailed the surrounding field. Cotton and Norway rats.

 

[Dogowski]

Shot my new Zelos for the first time
My first PCP ever.

What a perfect pcp to start with. Did you shoot it off the bench after sighting in or carry and walk and stalk? Enjoy man!

 

[Cantona256]

Welcome to the party, pal.

I am a heretic in many aspects of my life.
For example
Apple is horrible
The Beatles are mundane

That list just keeps growing

I agree on the Beatles and follow with a question… has anyone ever been more overrated than Bob Dylan?…..and is Daystate the Bob Dylan of airguns?!?!

Seriously though, Daystate is the only really high end air rifle I’ve ever shot. It was nice but nothing to write home about in my opinion. Then while reviewing the Karma EQ on the Airgun channel the dude says multiple times “this will out shoot my Black Wolf.” The karma is $950… what’s the other 3k for then?

Not trying to offend or start an argument. I just see the price tag then look at the specs and I just don’t get it. And before someone brings up the stocks I have to just say I think the chunky foregrips they do on a lot of those stocks ain’t it for me.

 

[Cantona256]

Shot my new Zelos for the first time
My first PCP ever.

Have you started planning your mods for it yet? It’s a great gun fresh out of the box but if you wanna do stuff to it there are a lot of mods/possibilities with that platform.

 

[SpindleB]

I agree on the Beatles and follow with a question… has anyone ever been more overrated than Bob Dylan?…..and is Daystate the Bob Dylan of airguns?!?!

Seriously though, Daystate is the only really high end air rifle I’ve ever shot. It was nice but nothing to write home about in my opinion. Then while reviewing the Karma EQ on the Airgun channel the dude says multiple times “this will out shoot my Black Wolf.” The karma is $950… what’s the other 3k for then?

Not trying to offend or start an argument. I just see the price tag then look at the specs and I just don’t get it. And before someone brings up the stocks I have to just say I think the chunky foregrips they do on a lot of those stocks ain’t it for me.

Lyrically Dylan is a monster.
Musically he leaves a lot on the table.
The nasally voice is grating.

Ive been making the point for a while that the sub-$1000 class of rifles has substantially closed the gap between them and the $2000+ class in the last couple years.
Zelos/M60b
Karma EQ
Reximex Throne 2 and Meta Premium
Kuzey K900
Kral (several)
AEA Challenger
...

Even some sub $500
Niksan Elf and Ozark

And the decades long standard for sub-$1000 AirForce Condor

I got in my usual trouble with moderators on AGN for asking what specifically was the $2,500+ getting you between a Throne 2 and Black Wolf. Unsurprising I ended up providing some of the answer, materials and engineering. Still not $2,500.

Also, Unsurprising was the (generalizing here) it costs more so that makes it better, responses.

I just find the idea that a non-competition shooter needs a $3,000 pellet gun ludicrous.

 

[hameditor]

Interesting discussion! I'd like to comment on a couple of points raised above...

I agree that improved materials and engineering are part of the price difference between a $1K and $2.5K air rifle. But there are more, including gun-to-gun consistency (AKA quality control), warranty and support, together with brand presence and even just looks. Each of us will have our own specific opinions of the value of these things.

Are these things necessary? Maybe not. At least not unless you are unfortunate enough to receive a "lemon". Can they make some of us feel better about our purchase? They sure can, hence the vast sales of high-end products of all types - not just airguns - with premium brand names. Again, we all make our own calls and $3K is a lot of money for most of us.

With regard to the "Karma EQ will outshoot my Blackwolf" comment, or similar. It's important to remember that a huge number of YouTube reviews are "bought". The video review business (again for all types of products, not just airguns) is based on reviewers being paid - usually before the video is published. If you were being paid to run a review for a certain product, would you say it was junk? Really?

In this respect, I would like to stress that Hard Air Magazine does not charge for reviews. Sure we have advertisers - you can all see who they are - and of course we give them priority in scheduling our limited review time. But HAM reviews themselves are not "bought". We say exactly what we want and prove it with as much data as possible.

And finally @SpindleB , please note that you have not got into trouble with the moderators here for asking a reasonable question in a reasonable manner!

 

[SpindleB]

Interesting discussion! I'd like to comment on a couple of points raised above...

I agree that improved materials and engineering are part of the price difference between a $1K and $2.5K air rifle. But there are more, including gun-to-gun consistency (AKA quality control), warranty and support, together with brand presence and even just looks. Each of us will have our own specific opinions of the value of these things.

Are these things necessary? Maybe not. At least not unless you are unfortunate enough to receive a "lemon". Can they make some of us feel better about our purchase? They sure can, hence the vast sales of high-end products of all types - not just airguns - with premium brand names. Again, we all make our own calls and $3K is a lot of money for most of us.

With regard to the "Karma EQ will outshoot my Blackwolf" comment, or similar. It's important to remember that a huge number of YouTube reviews are "bought". The video review business (again for all types of products, not just airguns) is based on reviewers being paid - usually before the video is published. If you were being paid to run a review for a certain product, would you say it was junk? Really?

In this respect, I would like to stress that Hard Air Magazine does not charge for reviews. Sure we have advertisers - you can all see who they are - and of course we give them priority in scheduling our limited review time. But HAM reviews themselves are not "bought". We say exactly what we want and prove it with as much data as possible.

And finally @SpindleB , please note that you have not got into trouble with the moderators here for asking a reasonable question in a reasonable manner!

Shall we say i was insistent in my queries.

And to one of your points, "lemons". That was what started me down the path of comparison. I started seeing fewer and fewer complaints (ignoring hatsan) about more than a handful of the low end rifles. To the level I see with the mid and high end guns. SPA/Snowpeak and AEA from China and several of the prominent Turkish manufacturers have all upped their game. Look at the M60B/Zelos and find any substantive complaints.

The rest of your points are quite valid but do they equate to $2,500? Competition as an exception always. The majority of shooters (me) are incapable of using a Black Wolf, Ghost or Leopard any where close to their potential. There is a substantial number of people that are buying a status symbol, though they will never admit that. We see that everywhere Cars, Stereos virtually any consumer product.

BTW: Gauntlet is where this all originates

My main point being the quality differentiation is decreasing but the price differentiation is increasing.

Seeing it elsewhere too. Scopes from CVLife, Westhunter and Spina are getting pretty damn impressive.

And the Condor just keeps rolling along...

 

[pan60]

I just find the idea that a non-competition shooter needs a $3,000 pellet gun ludicrous.

I want to say I may not need a 3000.00 pellet gun and truth be know I dont need a pellet gun at I could toss rocks with a rubber band but I want a pellet gun and I want something nice and well made.
I put y hand on a couple sub 1000.00 guns and I decided they weren't for me so I save and saved and I bought a AAA EVOL and by the time it was scope and and sent out it was well north of 3k and when I let my buddy see it next to his sub 1000.00 gun wich he felt was good enough he also saved and got a AAA EVOL and so did another buddy of ours.
the bill and quality of the upper end gun is far batter then the entry leval guns and yes the lats 20% cost a lot more the the first 80% and the last 10% is studied costly and every 1% after that is ridiculously expensive and no everyone wants to pay for that but
I do.
and I do not compete I mostly hunt a pest
if I could do it over, I would spend a dime on anything less the the upper end guns. or compressors for me its a waste of money but thats me.
I would venture to say it was ludicrous to waste money on entry and and mid level guns but I will refrain.
point is I and other are prime example of folks that want the better quality and we dont compete.

: )

 

[Cantona256]

Interesting discussion! I'd like to comment on a couple of points raised above...

I agree that improved materials and engineering are part of the price difference between a $1K and $2.5K air rifle. But there are more, including gun-to-gun consistency (AKA quality control), warranty and support, together with brand presence and even just looks. Each of us will have our own specific opinions of the value of these things.

Are these things necessary? Maybe not. At least not unless you are unfortunate enough to receive a "lemon". Can they make some of us feel better about our purchase? They sure can, hence the vast sales of high-end products of all types - not just airguns - with premium brand names. Again, we all make our own calls and $3K is a lot of money for most of us.

With regard to the "Karma EQ will outshoot my Blackwolf" comment, or similar. It's important to remember that a huge number of YouTube reviews are "bought". The video review business (again for all types of products, not just airguns) is based on reviewers being paid - usually before the video is published. If you were being paid to run a review for a certain product, would you say it was junk? Really?

In this respect, I would like to stress that Hard Air Magazine does not charge for reviews. Sure we have advertisers - you can all see who they are - and of course we give them priority in scheduling our limited review time. But HAM reviews themselves are not "bought". We say exactly what we want and prove it with as much data as possible.

And finally @SpindleB , please note that you have not got into trouble with the moderators here for asking a reasonable question in a reasonable manner!

That makes a lot of sense actually.

For the whole “this gun will outshoot that one” argument I don’t pay a lot of heed to that in general. Mostly because I think a lot of that will depend on the tune/tuner. There are some people around here performing miracles on the daily haha. I just thought it was interesting that of all the gun comparisons he could make that’s the one he went with. I really don’t even seen them as being in the same category.

I guess at the end of the day what I’m really trying to say is that if I was gonna buy a fancy British airgun today I’d probably go with a Brocock .

 

[Cantona256]

I want to say I may not need a 3000.00 pellet gun and truth be know I dont need a pellet gun at I could toss rocks with a rubber band but I want a pellet gun and I want something nice and well made.
I put y hand on a couple sub 1000.00 guns and I decided they weren't for me so I save and saved and I bought a AAA EVOL and by the time it was scope and and sent out it was well north of 3k and when I let my buddy see it next to his sub 1000.00 gun wich he felt was good enough he also saved and got a AAA EVOL and so did another buddy of ours.
the bill and quality of the upper end gun is far batter then the entry leval guns and yes the lats 20% cost a lot more the the first 80% and the last 10% is studied costly and every 1% after that is ridiculously expensive and no everyone wants to pay for that but
I do.
and I do not compete I mostly hunt a pest
if I could do it over, I would spend a dime on anything less the the upper end guns. or compressors for me its a waste of money but thats me.
I would venture to say it was ludicrous to waste money on entry and and mid level guns but I will refrain.
point is I and other are prime example of folks that want the better quality and we dont compete.

: )

Okay this kinda proves my original point. Both of my PCPs are in the budget bracket but I’m also not gonna argue that the really expansive ones aren’t worth the money. The Evol you mention is a great example. As someone who exclusively hunts with my airguns that gun makes a lot of sense to me. The reputation it has for being basically bulletproof justifies a lot of its price.

Same goes for quite a few of the higher end brands. My original point truly was specific towards Daystate. I’m kinda just wondering what it can do that BRK, FX, AAA.. et al…can’t do.