250Z NRL22 | Slugs | 250z platform???

[Bladefin]

It's more Ballistic Coefficient (BC). The aerodynamics of the Slug. The higher the BC, or more aerodynamic the slug is, the longer it can travel at the same speed and be less affected by wind of comparable weighted slug.

So, a 34gr .25 slug will be less aerodynamic than a 34gr .22 slug in general. It's a game of inches. Both weigh the same, 34gr, but the slug with a higher BC will travel flatter and have less movement with wind.

I was more talking about the fpe achievable in .25 vs .22. The consensus is that it will be tough to get a .22 into the 60's or low 70's. The volume of air in the barrel itself is less, so less potential for energy transfer. Also a 36+ grain .22 will be longer than a .25, so there's more friction loss getting the slug out of the barrel. Now that I type it out like that, it's probably a combination of those factors that make it difficult to get higher fpe out of a .22. At least with any meaningful number of shots.

The plenum isn't just about getting more fps, but, probably more importantly, consistency shot to shot. The larger air volume reservoir at reg pressure gives you less psi drop off as the projectile travels down the barrel. This helps move the projectile faster with less variance on the next shots until you fall off the reg.

Mine are .25 so unfortunately I can't be of help on you're main question.

 

[hameditor]

I was more talking about the fpe achievable in .25 vs .22. The consensus is that it will be tough to get a .22 into the 60's or low 70's. The volume of air in the barrel itself is less, so less potential for energy transfer. Also a 36+ grian .22 will be longer than a .25, so there's more friction loss getting the slug out of the barrel. Now that I type it out like that, it's probably a combination of those factors that make it difficult to get higher fpe out of a .22. At least with any meaningful number of shots.

The plenum isn't just about getting more fps, but, probably more importantly, consistency shot to shot. The larger air volume reservoir at reg pressure gives you less psi drop off as the projectile travels down the barrel. This helps move the projectile faster with less variance on the next shots until you fall off the reg.

Mine are .25 so unfortunately I can't be of help on you're main question.

Great analysis, thanks!

 

[Bladefin]

Great analysis, thanks!

I'm learning

This forum you've got is a wealth of information and great people!

 

[PcpN00b]

I was more talking about the fpe achievable in .25 vs .22. The consensus is that it will be tough to get a .22 into the 60's or low 70's. The volume of air in the barrel itself is less, so less potential for energy transfer. Also a 36+ grain .22 will be longer than a .25, so there's more friction loss getting the slug out of the barrel. Now that I type it out like that, it's probably a combination of those factors that make it difficult to get higher fpe out of a .22. At least with any meaningful number of shots.

The plenum isn't just about getting more fps, but, probably more importantly, consistency shot to shot. The larger air volume reservoir at reg pressure gives you less psi drop off as the projectile travels down the barrel. This helps move the projectile faster with less variance on the next shots until you fall off the reg.

Mine are .25 so unfortunately I can't be of help on you're main question.

Thanks BladedFin. I'm hoping someone with a 250z is on here in the forums who has tested the .22 up to those speeds with heavy slugs. I only need 12-14 shots per fill.

 

[Pumacarl]

Does the the 1mm cross section of the barrel make that much difference, or is in more the length of the slug in .22 at that heavy a grain?

I have read the efficiency difference comes from the actual number of air molecules that are able to exert force on the back of the bullet and parasitic drag. Yes, that extra diameter does make a difference. I don't remember the details, as I read this long ago, probably from Bob Stern. It is a lot harder, and less efficent, to get a .22 up to speed with air. That's why we need such long barrels if we want big power. If you're wondering why people bothered with the caliber in that case, it was mostly because of caliber restrictions in some places. That's my old and dated understanding of it.

 

[Pumacarl]

You're probably right. This will always be a hobby to me. Same with shooting my center fires and rimfires. However, I'm competitive in nature and want to win.

I saw a YT video from 'shooting gear reviews' and he showed the 250z capable of ACCURATE shots with 36gr slugs out to 170yds. When I saw that, I spiralled down this rabbit hole learning everything I can about the 250z because... In my eyes, if I can get a 250z to shoot 36+gr slugs like that YT channel showed, that is all I need.

Regarding the flimsy chassis, I know how to fix that. Having MLOk slots helps a lot. Mounting an Mlok arca rail will solidify the hand guard and stiffen up the rail.

I also saw the thread here where some have talked about installing an external plenum on their 250z. I'm watching those threads to see the performance boost.

I have been messaging ARC designs on FB and he also claims that his plenum (50cc) can increase fps by 40fps.

This could all be for naught but... Man, if some of you can confirm that a modded 250z can shoot 36gr+ slugs at 900fps ACCURATELY, I'm sold.

Yeah, SGR was shooting a .25 in that video, not a .22. If you are into the idea of trying to build up a monster .22, go for it! I found that I liked that process as much as shooting and it was just as rewarding. As long as you know what you are getting into, and the fact that it might just not work out. So don't do it as drudge work to reach a goal, but rather because you enjoy trying, or you are likely to sour on it pretty quickly. And remember everybody's advice, mine included, is from what they learned that they liked to do, or wouldn't put up with, so consider the source, always. Listen to the voice in your head the most. You don't need to wait on any report either, you could always just start trying yourself. That's a lot of fun too. Again, consider who's telling you this, lol!

 

[Neu]

Did they change the rules in the airgun division I thought up to .30 could be used? Or are you trying to compete in the open division?

My .22 at 3000 psi on the reg was shooting 28 grain at about 940fps (18 shoots) no way in hell would I be able to get 36 grain close to 900fps.

 

[Pumacarl]

Did they change the rules in the airgun division I thought up to .30 could be used? Or are you trying to compete in the open division?

My .22 at 3000 psi on the reg was shooting 28 grain at about 940fps (18 shoots) no way in hell would I be able to get 36 grain close to 900fps.

You did great to get 55fpe, is that with a plenum, if so how many cc's? People keep asking me about peak power, and I don't have a clue. I really like, no, love, how mine is shooting and I'm not going to be the one to change anything to find out. If I had a second gun I'd screw around, but not with this one.

 

[PcpN00b]

Carl hit the nail on the head. Even if you spend the money on a good PCP setup you're still going to spend the same if not more on slugs compared to rimfire. I know the days are long gone for picking up a Federal bulk pack of .22lr at Walmart for under $10 but a Blazer 40gr value pack is $45 right now, for 525 rounds it's 9 cents a round. Slugs will cost you 13 to 20 cents a round, although you get the tuneability and much less cleaning & mess.

Lets say you get a 250Z to get your feet wet and see if you like air gunning. With the gun, moderator, plenum, optic and a good compressor you'll be in the $1000 to $1500 range before even buying slugs or other mods. And don't forget a chronograph. But it will be backyard friendly and I don't think you will have a problem getting a 34~36 grain slug into the mid 60's FPE. I'm shooting a .25 33.49gr at 930fps getting 64fpe right now and it's ragged hole at 40yrds. If the weather dries up Saturday I'm going to test other distances to see if the grouping holds up.

I compete with my CZ 457 MTR. I only feed it match grade 22lr. But prices have creeped up to bulk 5.56 prices. Worst part is, I can't even reload rimfire.

Match grade slugs are what, .15 - .20 per shot? If I really get into this hobby, I will have the ability to swage my own slugs.

I have 3 scopes, I have 3 bipods, I have 2 suppressors I can use with the air rifles. I reload already for my center fires. I have a chronograph. I'm not new to shooting. I've already priced out the compressor, Barra 250z + mods and I'll be under $1000.

If the Barra 250z is a no go, then I may just end up having to up my budget on the rifle. The Avenge XL is intriguing. Easy barrel swaps, very modular, and already high powered out the gate for a little more than the upcoming 270z. I just don't see myself spending more for a PCP rifle than any of my match grade center-fire and/or rimfires.

 

[PcpN00b]

Found a new Zelos for $440, and a jig to drill and open up the body/receiver; comes with high flow valve for $140 on eBay, and an external plenum for $65. Researched more about this modded Zelos and can push heavy / High BC slugs 900+ fps easily. This may be the route I go. However, I think I'll wait for reviews on the Avenge XL, or if someone on here confirms they can shoot heavy/high BC slugs out of a modded 250z.

 

[Neu]

Found a new Zelos for $440, and a jig to drill and open up the body/receiver; comes with high flow valve for $140 on eBay, and an external plenum for $65. Researched more about this modded Zelos and can push heavy / High BC slugs 900+ fps easily. This may be the route I go. However, I think I'll wait for reviews on the Avenge XL, or if someone on here confirms they can shoot heavy/high BC slugs out of a modded 250z.

If you go with the zelos get the jig separate it's like $30 and grab the c88 valve it's a better valve and goes for about $60. Grab the pin probe from him also. C88 air is the site.

 

[PcpN00b]

If you go with the zelos get the jig separate it's like $30 and grab the c88 valve it's a better valve and goes for about $60. Grab the pin probe from him also. C88 air is the site.

Thank you Neu. Just discovered C88.

 

[Neu]

Thank you Neu. Just discovered C88.

He makes some really nice stuff, if you go fx liner kit and his valve and plenum you can get some huge gains from a zelos. Also check out heartland airguns he is making a really nice front extended Picatinny rail to full length Arca rail, it will cover a 500cc tank and is rock solid.

 

[PestPlasteringPlinker]

My .25 shoots 33 grain at 955, no plenum. Plenum if advertised correctly would be a 4 figure.

BBGunn has brrn running a lot of slugs through his 22, and documenting pressures, weights and speeds. You could see the changes based on weight, for his velocity, and calculate an assumed speed for weight.

Or, or, oooooorrrrr. Holler at him. Offer to buy him a couple boxes of 36 grain slugs, and run em until you meet your specs. See if the 22 can. Some guys might say yeah no problem.

My thing, that im curious about it the qc. He got a heavy qc gun, not a slug gun. I got a heavy qc gun, im tearing into it right now, I. 25.

A tan 250 is 450 bucks. A plenum is 135, 145 maybe. Slug and trigger kit, youre insane not to buy the trigger kit BTW, maybe 40 50 bucks.

There's your 650. Now, time. Trigger time is sooooo important with the z. Im 6k slugs down on my original one, and I still don't think im even reaching its limits. A dove, 100 yards, in a healthy cross head wind? Didn't have a moment to do anything but drop.

Shooting the z took me a while to find my 'awh yeah' spot because coming from traditional rim fires, the tacticool seemed off.

However, after shooting the snot out of it, now I have a his and hers. I love em that much.

Buuuuuuut, the barrels will always be my leary point with this company.

 

[PestPlasteringPlinker]

He makes some really nice stuff, if you go fx liner kit and his valve and plenum you can get some huge gains from a zelos. Also check out heartland airguns he is making a really nice front extended Picatinny rail to full length Arca rail, it will cover a 500cc tank and is rock solid.

Dude, did you see his conversion to 9mm? 100% don't need it, but man, would that be freaking cooooool!

 

[Cantona256]

Well welcome to the club! I don’t know about the 250 z but i do know a lot of guys shoot fx in nrl 22 take your time on picking a gun but once you do you will find yourself falling down the rabbit hole with the rest of us! A big reason for air to be popular is the 40 gr 22 slugs actually have better bc than 22 lr

Why bother with this response? He specifically asked about the barra because it’s BUDGET. Yes a lot of people shoot FX but those aren’t BUDGET guns…at least you didn’t recommend a $3,000 Daystate or BRK for once.

 

[Cantona256]

Okay first of all the .22 cal 250z will do 60fpe out of the box, no plenum mod.

A 40gr Ace slug doing 900fps is 72fpe… the Z is probably not gonna hit that. For one you need a slug power kit to open the valve properly above 2800psi.

I don’t know what the rules are for your completion but if you’re allowed to add a plenum mod then your plan is viable. After adding the plenum my Z loved shooting 35gr slugs at 950fps for 70fpe. Granted mine was in .25 cal but these guns are made the exact same way, the block is exactly the same it’s just the barrel, breach and pellet probe that are .25 cal. Yes a .22gr slug will be longer than .25gr in the same weight but considering we’re looking at a diameter difference of .03” there’s not gonna be a lot of difference.

The biggest issue I see is the QC on the .22 cal barrels. The problems are well documented on this forum. It sucks too because the .25 barrels are f***ing solid AF.

I’m actually working on machining a .22cal Skout barrel to fit into a 250z for a fellow forum member. I cannot report back yet, because the master machinist who owns the equipment had surgery a month ago and is still out. He’s in his 80s and while I could go elsewhere he’s graciously agreed to teach me how he machines barrels. Considering he did the barrel for my EQ, which has been an unqualified success, I’m not willing to seek other options yet.

That being said, I’ll keep y’all posted.

Overall I really like your idea because the best aspect of the Z, is the one people don’t talk about. Barrel harmonics! The air-over-barrel design gives the gun incredibly stable barrel harmonics. The regulator is also really freaking good so you add those together and you have a recipe for exceptional REPEATABLE accuracy.

BUT!

My recommendation is to get the 270 which is supposed to be out this month or June. Digging deep into the shot show videos I picked up a snippet where the barra guy said “we added a much bigger plenum and it makes 20% more power than the 250z.” That’s 70fpe out of the box y’all!!!

Personally I’m dying for the 350z… haha my shooting has evolved a lot in the last 18 months and I’m definitely in my “long range” era… lol I was “plinking” at 300y last weekend!


Finally,

Welcome to the forum fellow shooter. I hope you end up in the Barra family because these dudes are the coolest people on the whole forum. A lot of the guys commenting here have been in this little community since the 250z came out. They really know the in’s and outs of this gun. Others are newer but have taken that tribal knowledge and pushed the gun even further @PestPlasteringPlinker is a great example of this… I’m not as active on here as I was, work is brutally busy these days. But I used to be on here a lot more and frankly I love to piss people off sometimes. *The Daystate fanboys nod emphatically*

But the 250z crew is by far my favorite. I step in here to say to my bros and see that everyone is still killing it. This is where you wanna be I promise.

 

[PcpN00b]

Im defintely eyeing the 270Z. Just need to wait for it to arrive my local Cabelas for that 10% discount.