Others Storing a filled tank in a vehicle for prolonged periods

[PasadenaMike]

Ok so what are your thoughts of indefinitely keeping an air source in the van ? The back gets hot during summer. Maybe buy a cheap Tuxing 500cc tank and a Tuxing valve? Cheap enough not to care ? What are your thoughts ?

 

[Basher]

As long as you’re OK with whatever may happen if a burst disc lets go, I guess I don’t see a problem with it. As long as that disc performs correctly, it should prevent almost any damage. For a small 0.5L tank like that, why not just throw it in a backpack and bring it with you (unless you work somewhere that you can’t)?

 

[PasadenaMike]

As long as you’re OK with whatever may happen if a burst disc lets go, I guess I don’t see a problem with it. As long as that disc performs correctly, it should prevent almost any damage. For a small 0.5L tank like that, why not just throw it in a backpack and bring it with you (unless you work somewhere that you can’t)?

I work for family as an on road technician. I come across or get sent to places that are sometimes near my hunting spots

 

[Basher]

Doh! Well then my backpack idea’s pretty useless to you, haha.

I’d maybe under fill the tank by ~500psi and see how much the pressure climbs after a set period of time, and increase that time to track the change. It’s probably possible, but hard to say. Not sure how hot Pasadena gets, but if I were still living in Phoenix I don’t think I’d want to do that. YMMV.

 

[PasadenaMike]

Doh! Well then my backpack idea’s pretty useless to you, haha.

I’d maybe under fill the tank by ~500psi and see how much the pressure climbs after a set period of time, and increase that time to track the change. It’s probably possible, but hard to say. Not sure how hot Pasadena gets, but if I were still living in Phoenix I don’t think I’d want to do that. YMMV.

lol ya phoenix no but maybe I can keep it in the cab with me. We run partitions in the work vans

 

[Ezana4CE]

Ok so what are your thoughts of indefinitely keeping an air source in the van ? The back gets hot during summer. Maybe buy a cheap Tuxing 500cc tank and a Tuxing valve? Cheap enough not to care ? What are your thoughts ?

@PasadenaMike It sounds like you'd be a candidate for a travel compressor. It may be better to leave a SCBA tank in an enclosed vehicle for days during cooler months. I don't know the risk associated with doing that either. To leave a SCBA tank in a hot vehicle for a prolonged period on occasion, I can see that happening. But to do it repeatedly would likely wear out your burst disc. How is the tank being stored in the vehicle? Is it securely strapped down? How will the tank will behave while discharging high pressure air from that small burst disc opening? I cannot say. I don't think the heat is the largest issue. A pressurized tank moving due to a large volume of compressed air escaping is an entirely different issue. If your SCBA tank is made to the standards that firefighters use I can't see something catastrophic occurring as long as the burst disc performs as it should and the SCBA tank, its threads and valve are in good working order. These carbon fiber tanks are pretty robust. From what I've read, it takes a lot more pressure than we typically fill to in order to cause catastrophic tank failure. So I hope that allays any worry there, but I still wouldn't play with the idea. A quality travel compressor should work fine in the scenario you described..

 

[Florida_Man]

This has occupied space in my mind also haha. I need to remember to sit down and do the math when I have time.

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[Florida_Man]

Found a calculator

Gay-Lussac's Law Calculator

With Gay-Lussac's law calculator, you can quickly work out the pressure and temperature values in an isochoric process.

www.omnicalculator.com

Id say be careful

 

[Florida_Man]

Also, if your rifle is in the back the reg pressure in the plenum will go up also. I’m probably stating the obvious, but just had to say it.

 

[PasadenaMike]

lol .

@PasadenaMike It sounds like you'd be a candidate for a travel compressor. It may be better to leave a SCBA tank in an enclosed vehicle for days during cooler months. I don't know the risk associated with doing that either. To leave a SCBA tank in a hot vehicle for a prolonged period on occasion, I can see that happening. But to do it repeatedly would likely wear out your burst disc. How is the tank being stored in the vehicle? Is it securely strapped down? How will the tank will behave while discharging high pressure air from that small burst disc opening? I cannot say. I don't think the heat is the largest issue. A pressurized tank moving due to a large volume of compressed air escaping is an entirely different issue. If your SCBA tank is made to the standards that firefighters use I can't see something catastrophic occurring as long as the burst disc performs as it should and the SCBA tank, its threads and valve are in good working order. These carbon fiber tanks are pretty robust. From what I've read, it takes a lot more pressure than we typically fill to in order to cause catastrophic tank failure. So I hope that allays any worry there, but I still wouldn't play with the idea. A quality travel compressor should work fine in the scenario you described..

I’ve had travel compressors but don’t like them because they make moisture from
My experience so sticking to tanks is probably a better idea . Maybe a hand pump dare I say? I’ve kept a notos in my hot car quite a bit nothing happened .

 

[Ezana4CE]

lol .

I’ve had travel compressors but don’t like them because they make moisture from
My experience so sticking to tanks is probably a better idea . Maybe a hand pump dare I say? I’ve kept a notos in my hot car quite a bit nothing happened .

Ok so what are your thoughts of indefinitely keeping an air source in the van ? The back gets hot during summer. Maybe buy a cheap Tuxing 500cc tank and a Tuxing valve? Cheap enough not to care ? What are your thoughts ?

@PasadenaMike When you said "air source" I took that to mean SCBA tank/buddy bottle. Anyhow, I don't know what will happen, but you've got my two cents. If you try it with a SCBA tank, let us know if you run into any issues from repeatedly leaving it in your hot vehicle filled with compressed air over a long period of time.

 

[PasadenaMike]

@PasadenaMike When you said "air source" I took that to mean SCBA tank/buddy bottle. Anyhow, I don't know what will happen, but you've got my two cents. If you try it with a SCBA tank, let us know if you run into any issues from repeatedly leaving it in your hot vehicle filled with compressed air over a long period of time.

Appreciate the input if anything it’ll be a 500cc buddy bottle that I paid max $100.

 

[Luis Leon]

Am not a scientist but there is “no way” your tank” is at any risk from sitting in your hot vehicle “all year long”… Firefighters wear SCBAs in “harsher” environments than the inside of your van will ever be in regular everyday use… Simply a non issue… But do whatever floats your boat…

 

[PasadenaMike]

Am not a scientist but there is “no way” your tank” is at any risk from sitting in your hot vehicle “all year long”… Firefighters wear SCBAs in “harsher” environments than the inside of your van will ever be in regular everyday use… Simply a non issue… But do whatever floats your boat…

Good point as well

 

[Ezana4CE]

@PasadenaMike I was doing some reading on the temp range that causes concern for SCBA tanks and prompts the need for inspection after exposure. I think this information is in regards to catastrophic failure of the tank (which was not in question in this discussion).Tolerances contributing to the failure of the valve and burst disc may be a completely different story.
This is from the SCBA tank manufacturer Luxfer in regards to their SCBA tanks.

Temperature exposure - Luxfer Gas Cylinders

Luxfer Gas Cylinders strongly recommends that you make the following information available to any and all persons who handle and/or fill high-pressure aluminum gas cylinders: You are warned that failure to strictly follow these guidelines could result in overheating of the cylinder which could...

www.luxfercylinders.com

If I come across any other relative information, I'll try to keep it in mind to add to the thread.

Edited to add info on the functionality of SCBA tanks in higher temps by the manufacturer Honeywell. The EN standard may be worth looking into for a better understanding.

source: https://sps-support.honeywell.com/s...se-of-SCBA-self-contained-breathing-apparatus

Anyhow, this should help ease people's minds. As to my previous point that I did not explicitly state, if heat caused a small SCBA tank burst disc to fail, I don't know if the escaping air would create enough pressure to send a small buddy bottle crashing into to parts of the interior of your vehicle or trunk until the internal tank pressure subsides enough to stop moving the tank. Interesting question. Y'all do what you will and I'll learn from you all.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

I got to think how many pco guys just buy used whatever scba or scuba tanks or cut priced china not knowing there toting a potential bomb ..

Just bringing one in the house . Bet he never seen it coming ..

Scuba Tank Explodes Killing St. Petersburg Diver

I was at a dive shop when one blew . Took out the water tank it was in and the wall it was next to ..

In my life that's the only one I ever seen or known to let loose . Probably never see another .. lol

 

[Luis Leon]

I got to think how many pco guys just buy used whatever scba or scuba tanks or cut priced china not knowing there toting a potential bomb ..

Just bringing one in the house . Bet he never seen it coming ..

Scuba Tank Explodes Killing St. Petersburg Diver

I was at a dive shop when one blew . Took out the water tank it was in and the wall it was next to ..

In my life that's the only one I ever seen or known to let loose . Probably never see another .. lol

So almost thirteen years ago a scuba tank blew up, oh my. At the alarmist rate of your post and with so many PCPs shooters we would be reading about exploding SCBAs weekly…

 

[PasadenaMike]

It’s almost a non issue then according to the articles.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

It’s almost a non issue then according to the articles.

Ya, I sure he felt the same way and the look what happened.. lol. .

If you don't care then why your posting the thresf ? Something alarmed you , right? I'd say the chances are pretty low it will happen but it's not 100% it not ever .

 

[tec]

Ok so what are your thoughts of indefinitely keeping an air source in the van ? The back gets hot during summer. Maybe buy a cheap Tuxing 500cc tank and a Tuxing valve? Cheap enough not to care ? What are your thoughts ?

Legal compressed gas containers are "over designed" for the application for several reasons, one of them is outdoor summer in the sun temperatures....but even that can be exceeded depending on what part of the country you live in...
What is your bottle's rated working-max fill pressure?
What is its pneumatic or hydraulic test pressure?
A 250 barg filled bottle at 70F will get to ~300 barg at 140F...
Does your bottle have a pressure relief device? What is it set at?
TUXING 30Mpa 4500Psi 30Mpa 0.58L 580cc Carbon Fiber Cylinder High Pressure Gas Cylinder Paintball HPA Tank Hunting for PCP Air Rifle Gun Daystate FX Thread M18*1.5
I personally would not let any pressurized container exceed 110% of its maximum rated fill pressure....when we put Pressure relief devices on vessels...that device is designed to prevent >110% of the vessels maximum design/fill/operating pressure. MAWP
Our "bottles" are in cyclic service...which is fatigues them over time.
tc