Why are airgun manufacturers still using choked barrels?

[Bladebum]

As a consumer and not a manufacturer of any kind in the airgun industry, im having a hard time understanding why chokes are still being implemented. As I understand it, a choke was traditionally put in to help correct "off sizing" or imperfections in the pellets. However, airgun ammo these days has come leaps and bounds ahead of what used to be. On top of that, slugs are a big part of airgun shooting now and its no secret they perform better out of uncooked barrels.

The funny part is that some guns on the market with unchoked barrels not only shoot slugs great, but many times shoot pellets better than guns with choked barrels! I can't help but wonder why then, would a manufacturer still choose a choked barrel limiting your possibility of good slug shooting and not gaining(if even equaling) accuracy with pellets!? I can't be the only one wondering the answer to this.

 

[hameditor]

Bladebum, that is a great question! I will be very interested to read the replies...

 

[Pumacarl]

I would bet, that the box-store pellet rifle brands do it, to hedge their bets, on a barrel that will do ok. However, I am curious too on why the top tier companies still do it.

 

[Luis Leon]

I would bet, that the box-store pellet rifle brands do it, to hedge their bets, on a barrel that will do ok. However, I am curious too on why the top tier companies still do it.

Here’s a for instance, I do a crap ton of plinking in my yard, literally thousands of pellets down range. Premium JSBs or AAs, or maybe H&Ns? Heck no! Cheap, Crosman Premier Hollow Points, the choked barrels on my BRK Brococks, Atomic and Pathfinder XRs allow those pellets to shoot very well out to 50+ yards. So yes, my guns can be seen as mildly pricey, but at the rate I like to shoot and for plinking why would I shoot premium pellets? I do keep a stock of JSBs and AAs, but my everyday pellet is the CPHP.

 

[Pnwairgunner]

Well, if you go through and weigh and size a tin of pellets… (JSB or any other brand) you are going to see some variation in each can. Obviously the more you pay for a can of pellets the less variation you are expecting to see, but you’ll still find over and under’s.
Bent skirts and dinged up pellets are common with even the most careful handling due to the soft nature of the lead they are made from. It really takes almost no effort at all to deform a pellet to out-of-round even just by using your fingers and rolling it back and forth.
I’ve had quite of few cans of JSB 18 gr pellets in the last year or so that had a TON of damaged and dinged up pellets in each can. It happens. I primarily buy pellets from Pyramydair because they do an excellent job of packing pellet orders to try to prevent damage from occurring during shipping but who knows how rough of a trip those pellets have had on their way from the
Czech Republic.
I think there’s still enough variation in a can of pellets that a well-made choked barrel still makes sense.

 

[Bladebum]

Well, if you go through and weigh and size a tin of pellets… (JSB or any other brand) you are going to see some variation in each can. Obviously the more you pay for a can of pellets the less variation you are expecting to see, but you’ll still find over and under’s.
Bent skirts and dinged up pellets are common with even the most careful handling due to the soft nature of the lead they are made from. It really takes almost no effort at all to deform a pellet to out-of-round even just by using your fingers and rolling it back and forth.
I’ve had quite of few cans of JSB 18 gr pellets in the last year or so that had a TON of damaged and dinged up pellets in each can. It happens. I primarily buy pellets from Pyramydair because they do an excellent job of packing pellet orders to try to prevent damage from occurring during shipping but who knows how rough of a trip those pellets have had on their way from the
Czech Republic.
I think there’s still enough variation in a can of pellets that a well-made choked barrel still makes sense.

My daystate regal xl was an extremely accurate gun with jsb 18.13s and it had a very tight choke. But, my Evol and jts airacuda shooting those exact same unsorted jsbs (mostly jts now) are just as or more accurate than the daystate. Obviously a damaged pellet is what it is and won't fly straight out of any barrel. But the same pellets shot out of the 2 different barrels produce the same results downrange, with the only difference being one is limited to pellets pretty much.

 

[AOA ROB]

My experience with both pellet manufacturers and barrel makers is this. Chokes are primarily to make up for the inconsistency of the DOM barrels that almost all makers use. Of course the higher level of specification demanded by the gun company the better the barrel. And the higher cost.

Rob.

 

[Pumacarl]

That's kinda what I was getting at, the really nice higher end guns use better barrels and probably shouldn't need them. Like everybody else that reads these forums everyday, it seems there is always someone doing a test showing that a bent skirt gets blown open by the blast of air and still shoots ok. As good no, was it the fault of the choke, or the absence of one? That would be a really good test to do if you had similar air guns with the only difference being one is choked. Actually for the test to mean anything, it would have to be multiple sets of guns shooting multiple tins, probably why it hasn't been done. If it has been done recently with high quality guns, I'd love to read that article.

 

[AOA ROB]

It’s been done. Information like that is to valuable to make public.

Rob.

 

[Pumacarl]

Well, that's kind of sad, and typical at the same time. Maybe some industry insider will read this thread and leak the info, it's all the rage these days.

 

[Bladebum]

So for me its very simple. Since I am not a manufacturer but simply a consumer my tests are simply buy gun shoot gun. Having been on both sides of the "choked/unchoked" spectrum shooting the exact same ammo through all I have seen no difference in pellet accuracy between them and a huge difference in slug accuracy obviously going to the unchoked.

Having said that, I get that there are many guns with chokes that shoot slugs very well (fx being the biggest) but typically they tend to a be a bit fussier. These are just my findings which led me to ask the question of why the chokes are still around if as a consumer I see no obvious advantage in thier intended design philosophy.

 

[MountainSportAirguns]

"Some" manufacturers are using choked barrels, I don't think it's really a behind the times thing but because people want to shoot slugs it's more apparent the difference between the two. As an example you can purchase many different sizes of slugs in any caliber, it's easier to manipulate a projectile than a barrel in many cases. Companies like TJ enterprises manufacture barrels that several companies like American Air Arms and Western have taken advantage of, these are solid barrels but do require work to clean up and fit to the production rifles. FX had a good idea with the way they manufacturer barrels, the positive is they can change the profile much easier than that of a solid barrel that requires a separate mandrel, these can get very expensive and are essentially a gamble with loads of time and money involved. The downside to having such thin barrels is harmonic issues, poi shifts and overall durability problems. As an industry you will see giant leaps in barrel technology, It's being developed but takes time to get right...and loads of money.

 

[Alan]

I profess I'm not a metallurgist, but if there is a seam in the tubing FX uses for barrel liners, they do a wonderful job of masking them! They do use a proprietary method to apply the rifling from the outside of the liner, and they do use a choke at the muzzle. In a .250 caliber, that choke is .2495 whether it is for pellets or slugs. So, based solely on hearsay, FX (apparently) chokes their's to improve accuracy. They at least have "me" convinced!

Once upon a time, you could buy (firearm) barrel blanks with a swaged "choke" of sorts. The fad didn't last long, as shooters found (firearm) choking does cause excessive fowling. But then again, we're talking much greater velocities and really hot gasses.

With FX in mind, the separation between pellet and slug liners, is the twist. It is only this differential I have any argument about. For example (again in a .250 caliber) the pellet and (so called light) slug liner has a twist of 1:24. The heavy (at whatever weight a slug becomes "heavy") slug liner is 1:18. I wish they offered other twists, but alas...

One thing to keep in mind, is what type of slug is being used—cast or swaged. Seems to me, that casting requires a harder alloy than swaging does. Good thing too, as soft lead slugs do a better job of dispatching game, than pellets do. And you can shoot them faster too! For the record, we're not talking big bore airguns, which are in a class all by themselves.

 

[BenjeneerJohn]

The choke is there to re-size the pellet right before it leaves the muzzle. The choke can clean up any minor deformation in the pellet from traveling down the barrel and to make sure all the pellets leave the muzzle at the same size. A good choke can help make a barrel less pellet picky.

The reason people lap barrels is to remove any minor tight spots (and improve surface finish). The choke is meant to be the tightest spot.

A coked barrel can also allow for a larger bore diameter (up until the choke). This will allow the pellet to travel down the length of the barrel with less friction.

Another advantage of the choke is that it allows for a little more tolerance on the bore diameter. This makes barrels a little easier to make and gives more room for error.

John

 

[Alan]

Yes, but this does address the reason FX (et.al.) use choked liners even for those designed for slugs (extra fast twist).

 

[oOmpH]

Yes, but this does address the reason FX (et.al.) use choked liners even for those designed for slugs (extra fast twist).

Agreed. Debunking the myth slugs only shoot well from unchoked barrels. The best rimfire barrels are choked. Unless theres a definite standard for projectile size and any variations in barrel are sorted, chokes are a stay to balance out these issues. Unchoked only makes sense when the projectiles diameter is properly sized for the bore imho.

 

[Alan]

I'll buy that 22LR competition barrels are choked, but I've owned several regular old 22LR firearms without chokes.

One thing Bob Sterne often postulates that ballistic properties (for lack of a better name) are wholly different for sub sonic projectiles, than for supersonic ones. And in fact, it is this difference that we need new ballistic profiles specifically for pellets and slugs.

 

[CTAirgunner]

"Some" manufacturers are using choked barrels, I don't think it's really a behind the times thing but because people want to shoot slugs it's more apparent the difference between the two. As an example you can purchase many different sizes of slugs in any caliber, it's easier to manipulate a projectile than a barrel in many cases. Companies like TJ enterprises manufacture barrels that several companies like American Air Arms and Western have taken advantage of, these are solid barrels but do require work to clean up and fit to the production rifles. FX had a good idea with the way they manufacturer barrels, the positive is they can change the profile much easier than that of a solid barrel that requires a separate mandrel, these can get very expensive and are essentially a gamble with loads of time and money involved. The downside to having such thin barrels is harmonic issues, poi shifts and overall durability problems. As an industry you will see giant leaps in barrel technology, It's being developed but takes time to get right...and loads of money.

So many good points here.

The slugs being pushed hard right now for very good reason whether for competition or longer distance hunting (I'm still up in the air with the latter) is showing the difference between the two much more than previously.

Anyone who's ok with slinging pellets is not really concerned with choke vs unchoked in my opinion. Me being one of them.

I'm shooting an unchoked barrel in my hps and I am having sub moa accuracy with 18 gr jsb at 105 yards and intend to shoot these further and further till I see the accuracy diminish.

I know that Pepsi_gets_it_done1861 on YouTube is shooting 44.75 out of his evol pretty damn accurately out to 200 yards.

There are many here who would rather a "real" barrel like the tj hammer forged because of their utmost reliability and very low rate of poi changes etc.

 

[Alan]

We're all probably out in left field at this point, but the hunting issue perked my interest once again.

One of the reasons I use 26.8 grain slugs, is because I shoot in an exurban area where houses, cattle, and ($$race) horses are prevalent. So, you don't want slugs flying where they're not wanted, but you still have to be darn careful. Yet, 250 yard shots can be made on Grackles if the wind is light, and you have a decent support structure. Success is about 30% at these distances, which I think is phenomenal due to the Point-Blank-Range size of a Grackle. And, I say with certainty, you couldn't do anywhere near this good, with a similar weight pellet.

 

[CTAirgunner]

We're all probably out in left field at this point, but the hunting issue perked my interest once again.

One of the reasons I use 26.8 grain slugs, is because I shoot in an exurban area where houses, cattle, and ($$race) horses are prevalent. So, you don't want slugs flying where they're not wanted, but you still have to be darn careful. Yet, 250 yard shots can be made on Grackles if the wind is light, and you have a decent support structure. Success is about 30% at these distances, which I think is phenomenal due to the Point-Blank-Range size of a Grackle. And, I say with certainty, you couldn't do anywhere near this good, with a similar weight pellet.

Are 250 yard shots necessary on a grackle though? I'd rather take the 100 yard shot (IF I HAD TO) with my 18.13 with a lot more success rate.