What'cha doing air gun related today?

[SpindleB]

Yeah the problem is that you need to have solid numbers for the target material…because mass/force and surface area applied to a steel plate won’t be the same when applied to a 25lbs coyote.

Yeah, forgot that part. Only been 50+ years...

Time for Ballistic Gel if it were not so expensive.

 

[nightplinkers]

Yeah the problem is that you need to have solid numbers for the target material…because mass/force and surface area applied to a steel plate won’t be the same when applied to a 25lbs coyote.

I love the science, debate and material characteristics cross-over here.

How do we make this something practical for those without the science ?

If I want to know the mimimum projectile FPE for a given target (yote, rabbit, rat, water bottle), I need to have a cheat sheet that also shows me an average force of resistance. The. I need another that shows me expansion FPE for various ammo types. Or, general rule of thumb, if POI FPE is 7+, should properly expand, but test with various hollow point pellets and slugs such as H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme, JSB KnockOuts or NSA HPs.

 

[SpindleB]

I love the science, debate and material characteristics cross-over here.

How do we make this something practical for those without the science ?

If I want to know the mimimum projectile FPE for a given target (yote, rabbit, rat, water bottle), I need to have a cheat sheet that also shows me an average force of resistance. The. I need another that shows me expansion FPE for various ammo types. Or, general rule of thumb, if POI FPE is 7+, should properly expand, but test with various hollow point pellets and slugs such as H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme, JSB KnockOuts or NSA HPs.

Im sure it has been done to some extent. A set of ballistic gel blocks in several mix percentages. That would give you baselines for comparison. The problem at that point is the multiple resistance factors in a live animal. Skin, void, tissue and bone. The initial penetration through the skin will require more energy than the movement through void or tissue. That is for a center mass shot. Head shot the bone is a factor. It also changes the skin penetration by backing the skin with a solid material.

Basically if you head shot then you need more FPE than center mass shot. The same FPE for a head shot might pass right through a center mass shot with little expansion.

 

[Danman]

Actually it’s the opposite. From what I can tell the big slower moving slugs penetrate well but don’t expand very well. I strongly prefer not passing through if it means my slug is dumping its energy really well.

Lol your saying what I'm saying boss
Speed/Expansion is king on slugs

 

[nightplinkers]

Im sure it has been done to some extent. A set of ballistic gel blocks in several mix percentages. That would give you baselines for comparison. The problem at that point is the multiple resistance factors in a live animal. Skin, void, tissue and bone. The initial penetration through the skin will require more energy than the movement through void or tissue. That is for a center mass shot. Head shot the bone is a factor. It also changes the skin penetration by backing the skin with a solid material.

Basically if you head shot then you need more FPE than center mass shot. The same FPE for a head shot might pass right through a center mass shot with little expansion.

That’s the can of worms right there - And then, if head on head shot, side head shot, quartering head shot from behind ear, side vitals, quartering from rear, from front… And then, what kind of animal, headshot to a rat (1/2” kill zone) easy skin penetration because of the skull backing, more than a bird, less than leather, but also a thin almost bird like skull which only needs about “3” FPE to FED on a brain shot, body shot into a rat’s vitals needs more, around 6-7 POI FPE; to your point, there is no backing behind the skin so it takes more FPE to penetrate, leaving less FPE to travel to vitals, ideally expanding on impact with the skin. Now, a feral hog? Nope, I’m not trying a headshot, lol. Too many stories of skull dancing .50 cal slugs out there. Vitals only. An extreme example, but worthy of noting that in the end - it all depends on the never ending variable.

There are some things here however that may be considered constants. As an airgun community, we should work to find where those are in what appear to be a mix of variables. Boil it down. Make it easy, accurate and safe. Share it to expand airgun awareness, education and adoption.

 

[Cantona256]

Lol your saying what I'm saying boss
Speed/Expansion is king on slugs

Heeey yes sir. I know lots of people shoot heavy slugs at slower speeds with lots of success so I’m not arguing one is better than the other. That’s just my preference. Like an even dumber Ricky Bobby I wanna go fast hahaha.

 

[Cantona256]

I love the science, debate and material characteristics cross-over here.

How do we make this something practical for those without the science ?

If I want to know the mimimum projectile FPE for a given target (yote, rabbit, rat, water bottle), I need to have a cheat sheet that also shows me an average force of resistance. The. I need another that shows me expansion FPE for various ammo types. Or, general rule of thumb, if POI FPE is 7+, should properly expand, but test with various hollow point pellets and slugs such as H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme, JSB KnockOuts or NSA HPs.

Yeah this is a level of nerdom that I can really get behind!

 

[Florida_Man]

I tested a bunch of 25 cal slugs from a Cricket Tac I had, and a bunch of 177 slugs from my Bullshark.
Both I used NSA, H&N, Zan, VK, and JSB. I used clear ballistics and tested an inch or so, and 25-30 yards. In both calibers the VK and JSB expansion was the best, followed by Zan. The others were nowhere near them.
I always look for maximum energy dump. I don’t use them for distance shoot, but for energy at target.
The 10gr JSB’s will have a hole in the center then do so well. The FX hybrids ended up opening very well and grouped the best from my cricket, so I used those.

 

[Luis Leon]

Some sweet “can’t miss” plinking at 25, 40, 50, 60, 64 and 102 yards. Ghost Carbine sending JSB Exact Jumbo 18.13s This PCP puts the smack down. I gotten use to the lower power of my Atomics and Pathfinder. But in comparison the Ghost is simply a powerhouse… The way it “cracks” my black walnut targets never gets old. Plus my first round hits on my plastic rats at 102 yards…

 

[Cantona256]

Some sweet “can’t miss” plinking at 25, 40, 50, 60, 64 and 102 yards. Ghost Carbine sending JSB Exact Jumbo 18.13s This PCP puts the smack down. I gotten use to the lower power of my Atomics and Pathfinder. But in comparison the Ghost is simply a powerhouse… The way it “cracks” my black walnut targets never gets old. Plus my first round hits on my plastic rats at 102 yards…View attachment 15020

It’s really pretty too haha

 

[Cantona256]

Hey everyone in case you’re wonder the Karma EQ magazine WILL load the 75gr and 78gr griffin boat tails slugs!! They cycle and load like butter too! So basically 22 boattails on deck ready to fly!

Does it have enough power to shoot them? Well I ran a quick, non-scientific test and the short answer is “Hell Yes!” The reg settled at 2400psi after this weekend’s shooting. And it’s barely touching that line too but it sent the 75gr at 780 and the 78s at 771-775. This isn’t even a power tune on the gun. This is the same setup I’m pushing the 45gr Franco’s at 960fps… it’s a cannon.

 

[nightplinkers]

I tested a bunch of 25 cal slugs from a Cricket Tac I had, and a bunch of 177 slugs from my Bullshark.
Both I used NSA, H&N, Zan, VK, and JSB. I used clear ballistics and tested an inch or so, and 25-30 yards. In both calibers the VK and JSB expansion was the best, followed by Zan. The others were nowhere near them.
I always look for maximum energy dump. I don’t use them for distance shoot, but for energy at target.
The 10gr JSB’s will have a hole in the center then do so well. The FX hybrids ended up opening very well and grouped the best from my cricket, so I used those.

Great info on the expansion. I just pulled 3 sets of 13 random from H&N HP 10gr, JSB KnockOut (HP) 13.43gr and some Gamo G-Hammer Heavy Weight 15.42gr (not “technically” a slug nor HP).

Haven’t run’em through yet, but first thoughts are, $@#% these H&N 10gr HP Slugs are tiny, tiny, tiny. These JSB “look” consistent so I have high hopes; we’ll see after the weigh in. These G-Hammers are huge, but will they perform and are they needed for the target quarry?

 

[nightplinkers]

Great info on the expansion. I just pulled 3 sets of 13 random from H&N HP 10gr, JSB KnockOut (HP) 13.43gr and some Gamo G-Hammer Heavy Weight 15.42gr (not “technically” a slug nor HP).

Haven’t run’em through yet, but first thoughts are, $@#% these H&N 10gr HP Slugs are tiny, tiny, tiny. These JSB “look” consistent so I have high hopes; we’ll see after the weigh in. These G-Hammers are huge, but will they perform and are they needed for the target quarry?

13 random from each tin

 

[nightplinkers]

View attachment 14959

Quick report guys… I got my .30 cal today. There is definitely some regulator break-in needed. Plenum is creeping from 2100-2200fps. Not a big deal so far. If it doesn’t settle after a bit I’ll break it down and relube it with Reg Butter. With the transfer port on max it’s shooting the fx 50.2gr pellets at 899-905fps. The transfer port adjuster does make a huge difference. Turning it down half way dropped the fps by 100.
I’m really impressed so far. It is heavy but it shoulders really well. Lots and lots of power. I haven’t touched a dang thing and it’s making 90fpe. Considering the website says 102fpe for “max power” I think it’s safe to say they are under promising.

After the weekend you had, didn't need as much breaking in as you thought ?

 

[Jaabaa]

It's Heat index of over 100 already. I'm going to sit right here and finish this tin of pellets in the HW30 in the basement.

 

[SpindleB]

It's Heat index of over 100 already. I'm going to sit right here and finish this tin of pellets in the HW30 in the basement.

Current temp 70f, feels like 70f.
Expected high 73f.
10 miles west 63f heading for 65f
10 miles east 78f heading for 83f.

 

[Cantona256]

After the weekend you had, didn't need as much breaking in as you thought ?

Haha honestly not sure? Karma themselves know that the reg is quirky as they say in the manual to dry fire 6-8 times after changing the reg pressure to let it settle. I’m sure the constant elevation and temp changes out here don’t help either.

When I got home yesterday I sat down to do some shooting and all of the sudden the slugs were sailing around. Speed looked good so I don’t think it’s the reg. On Saturday in the process of trying to tune it I turned the hammer spring in a bit and I think that was a mistake. It stabilized the speed temporarily until the reg settled. Karma knew what people were gonna wanna try with this gun so the hammers spring is VERY heavy. I don’t think it’s full on bouncing but pretty sure the dwell is too high which is messing with the slugs. I reset the HS, set the reg up a little higher, dry fired it a bunch and put it way. I already know I’m gonna go heavier so I’m gonna let these 45’s cook while I wait for the 52s to get in.

So besides the weight I’d say this gun is a little expensive on air use to tune. Since you have to dry fire all the time. I also don’t like the location of the HS adjuster.

 

[Florida_Man]

I did some plinking with my PP750. Gotta take advantage while it’s not leaking air

 

[Pumacarl]

13 random from each tin

The most unbelieveable expansion and fantastic accuracy I have yet seen from a .177 is the JSB KO 10.03gr MK3's. They have to be the MK3's, I have the regular ones too and they are only half as good as the MK3's for expansion.

 

[Cantona256]

The most unbelieveable expansion and fantastic accuracy I have yet seen from a .177 is the JSB KO 10.03gr MK3's. They have to be the MK3's, I have the regular ones too and they are only half as good as the MK3's for expansion.

On the topic what’s your favorite pellet in .30? I’m playing with the idea of making a dual tune for the EQ where I can shoot both pellets and a slug with the same settings.