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Self-Loading Western Sidewinder .30 Barrel Determination

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pfddi

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I have just gotten a Western Sidewinder .30 from Kelly at KRAZ Cool airguns (Yes he is "Mr Huben!). Kelly had the gun in stock for a week so I'm guessing that it may be one with the subMOA barrel. I have not taken the barrel off yet, but has someone taken their barrel off and determined if it was the subMOA or TJ? Decided to ask before I took the gun apart. Also, I took it out and clearly had it shooting 44.75 JSB MKIIs way to fast (935fps) as it was spraying them like a shotgun! I then ran some slugs - H&N HP II 54g - and they went so far right that they didn't hit the target! Does the barrel require some break in? I did shoot 6 mags so 72 shots so far but my accuracy did not get any better. I have a Sidewinder S in .25 and it's a laser with the 33.95g pellets. I'll go out again today and slow it down to the high 800s and very low 900s to see if it gets better. If any of you have a .30 with the subMOA barrel, what seems to shoot the best for you?
 
It may not stabilize pellets at any fast or slow speed. It is (likely) a slug oriented barrel that is a 26:1 twist rate, and therefore short pellets and short slugs probably won't spin stabilize. Other's with the 30 are having good results with slugs along the lines of what specs I put on this twist rate calculator to generate this screen shot below. There's a few posts on this HAM Western sub-forum that tell of the two barrel types look like and good slug's and speeds they use.

Here's a link to the calculator:


1000007404.jpg
 
@pfddi could you measure the twist rate of that barrel and then post it up here? This information will help to figure out a decent sized projectile that should get you real close to shooting stable and accurate.
 
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It's 24:1. The barrel is 24" and the tape takes the whole length to make one revolution. At worst in case I'm doing it incorrectly, it's 22:1 but I do think it's 24.
 
pfddi said:
It's 24:1. The barrel is 24" and the tape takes the whole length to make one revolution. At worst in case I'm doing it incorrectly, it's 22:1 but I do think it's 24.
Click to expand...
Fine job sir! You may be correct in the 22:1 ratio. I measured my 45 Long Strike several times and it measured a few inches below advertised also. All that means is that we need to use a projectile that fits closely within those perimeters and fine tunevthe diameter and length from there.
 
Here's screenshot of couple of theoretical slug types that fall right within the stability factor of 1.5 with twist rate of 22. Looking at the specs, one is a standard straight shanked slug and the other is a rebated boat tail. Griffin Slugs has a few weights and lengths in these that you should try.

Also, the bore diameter matters, as does slug diameter. Because a lot of .30 caliber air rifles start with an pretty exacting bore diameter of .300" then I'd buy some slugs that are a little over the bore diameter.
1000007412.jpg1000007411.jpg
 
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ASV makes over bore sized slugs. Another member said that his .30 Sidewinder High Energy version likes ASV .3013" diameter ammo at 61.5 grains, but his twist rate was slower at 26:1 too. I'd give them a shot, and some of the longer slug's too.

 
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I took the gun out yesterday and got it sighted in with 44.75 and 50.15 pellets. Hole in hole at 30 yards. I upped the regulator a bit so it is now a touch over 150. I had decent luck with some Javelin Gen 2 52g .300. I didn't have an .301s to try to see if the groups tightened up. Plus the slugs were averaging 864 fps and I probably need to up the reg to get it over 900 which may also improve the grouping.

I talked with Sean at AoA regarding the barrel type and he said that he wasn't sure which barrel I had in the gun. I will send him my serail number and he said he may be able to check for me, but he said he could not guarantee which one I had. It shoots quite well now, but it would be nice to know.... Sean also said to try some lighter slugs - 30 to 40 grain as that twist may do better with those than the heavies. That is my next step.

So I ran into an interesting problem when I was trying to measure the twist rate of the barrel. First, getting the barrel back on with just enough spacing to not blow air in your face or locking up the magazine because the barrel is too tight is an art! The first time I put it back on I got the air in my face, so I followed the directions and gave it another 1/8 twist tighten it. The next shot went and the air blew out the barrel at the breech! My magazine did not cycle to the next round. I went to take the barrel off and I could not budge it by hand. Then I put it in my rifle workstand and used a vice grip with nylon grips to try and get it out. Still couldn't turn it. I don't have a gun vice, so I took it to the neighborhood gunsmith. They thankfully loosened the barrel (took them a few seconds with the correct tools!) and didn't charge me a dime! Boy, I sure miss places like this anymore! I was then able to move the barrel around and get it properly working again. Now to just find the right slug. I will take @Airgun-hobbyist suggestion and get some .301s and see how they fare!
 
pfddi said:
I took the gun out yesterday and got it sighted in with 44.75 and 50.15 pellets. Hole in hole at 30 yards. I upped the regulator a bit so it is now a touch over 150. I had decent luck with some Javelin Gen 2 52g .300. I didn't have an .301s to try to see if the groups tightened up. Plus the slugs were averaging 864 fps and I probably need to up the reg to get it over 900 which may also improve the grouping.

I talked with Sean at AoA regarding the barrel type and he said that he wasn't sure which barrel I had in the gun. I will send him my serail number and he said he may be able to check for me, but he said he could not guarantee which one I had. It shoots quite well now, but it would be nice to know.... Sean also said to try some lighter slugs - 30 to 40 grain as that twist may do better with those than the heavies. That is my next step.

So I ran into an interesting problem when I was trying to measure the twist rate of the barrel. First, getting the barrel back on with just enough spacing to not blow air in your face or locking up the magazine because the barrel is too tight is an art! The first time I put it back on I got the air in my face, so I followed the directions and gave it another 1/8 twist tighten it. The next shot went and the air blew out the barrel at the breech! My magazine did not cycle to the next round. I went to take the barrel off and I could not budge it by hand. Then I put it in my rifle workstand and used a vice grip with nylon grips to try and get it out. Still couldn't turn it. I don't have a gun vice, so I took it to the neighborhood gunsmith. They thankfully loosend the barrel (took them a few seconds with the correc tools!) and didn't charge me a dime! Boy, I sure miss places like this anymore! I was then able to move the barrel around and get it properly working again. Now to just find the right slug. I will take @Airgun-hobbyist suggestion and get some .301s and see how they fare!
Click to expand...
@pfddi I’m curious to see if those pellets are consistent at 50, 60, 75 yards.
 
@Ezana4CE - Actually I (my friend) did shoot them at 100 yards and they were grouping very well. He was hitting his metal target at 4 inch diameter and then hitting the lower 1.5" raiser target consistantely! The gun was then hunting ready! I still need to find the best slugs for the barrel...
 
pfddi said:
@Ezana4CE - Actually I (my friend) did shoot them at 100 yards and they were grouping very well. He was hitting his metal target at 4 inch diameter and then hitting the lower 1.5" raiser target consistantely! The gun was then hunting ready! I still need to find the best slugs for the barrel...
Click to expand...
@pfddi Slugs? I’d be happy with good pellet performance, especially with a compact version.
 
My .25 Sidewinder S shoots 33.95g JTS lights out. Very accurate and consistant to 100 yards. Suprisingly it is very accurate on full auto out to 50 yards - limiting factor is me holding it steady! I have the Oneleaf Mars MT1000LRF with 35mm lens and I got a skunk at 79 yards the other night with it - single shot DRT. It has taken out voles at 50 yards and they are very small targets! I would imagine the .30 Sidewinder S would be similar. Mine is older with the TJ barrel and I can't complain.
 
I just acquired a Sidewinder 30cal and am going to start trying to find a projectile and tune that works. I bought the gun from a friend that had only run a 300-400 JSB 44.5's, I shot it briefly yesterday and think I can make it much better. The reg was set just over the highest setting in the green range, and I have adjusted it down to 140 as a starting point. I was only getting a little over two magazines on a fill.

As soon as I get pellets tuned I would like to work on trying to find a tune for slugs. While I had the barrel off cleaning it I marked a cleaning rod get about 7/8 of a turn in the full length, The overall barrel length is 24". Could someone help me determine the actual twist? I was hoping there was a quick way to determine without measuring the freebore and all the calculations ( I am heading out to shoot it now, so no time for math...LOL) Lastly if I can figure the twist rate who do I need to sweet talk to run the calculation on the parameters of the slug to stabilize? Thanks ahead of time for any info you guys can help with.
 

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