WA State Regulations Question

[Tompetersonhaircut]

Hi all,

With the summer in full swing, I’m getting ready for fall hunting here I. Washington state. I have been doing my e-scouting and following up with visits to different potential hunting locations. A thought occurred to me while looking into a location- a lot of wildlife areas, waterfowl spots, and pheasant release sites have non-toxic shot requirements. The wording of this regulation includes loose shot for muzzle loading.

I was curious if the WDFW would consider airgun ammo “loose shot”or if this is specifically applied to shotguns?

Airgun hunting has only been legal here for a few years and the regulations are still pretty vague. I don’t know a lot of hunters using airguns, so I don’t know how the WDFW is interpreting and enforcing regulations.

I wrote to the enforcement department and followed it up with a phone message back in June to no response. I understand that they’re strapped for time, so I thought I’d ask if anyone here has any information or experience with this in WA state?

Given the lack of specifics and the short time that airguns have been legal means of take, I am very conscientious about making sure that I am representing the airgun community in a legal and ethical manner. All it takes is one bad decision or bad actor to ruin the opportunities that we now have. I also want to get out there and enjoy hunting with my tools of choice. If anyone has any suggestions or information please do share.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Just go find your local wildlife officer and sit down with him to a cup of coffee or just chat it up of you catch him in the field on your concerns .. them answers as best straight from the horse's mouth I'd guess ..

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

Just go find your local wildlife officer and sit down with him to a cup of coffee or just chat it up of you catch him in the field on your concerns .. them answers as best straight from the horse's mouth I'd guess ..

Thanks for the reply. I would love to be able to do that. Unfortunately, I have had zero success connecting with anyone. As I mentioned before I have tried to contact them several times, that is why I opened the question to the forum.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

That's too bad ours seem pretty approachable and willing to talk it up ..

 

[hameditor]

Is this of no help? Airgun Hunting Laws by State | Pyramyd Air

 

[Ezana4CE]

@Tompetersonhaircut Have you tired writing a letter and mailing it? Here’s the contact info.

Contact us

Need customer service? Looking for a regional office? Trying to find a specific WDFW employee? We live and work all over Washington, and we want to

wdfw.wa.gov

I did that to obtain information on an out of state hunting license because the info in that state’s hunting lregs was unclear. They sent the license and corrected the wording in the following year’s publication. It may be worth a try for you to write them well ahead of the season.

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

Is this of no help? Airgun Hunting Laws by State | Pyramyd Air

Thanks for sharing this. I’m pretty clear on the regulations- as written. What I am unclear about is how the regulations are being interpreted and applied by enforcement. I think it’s important to be cautious as I don’t want to lose my ability to hunt and I want to make sure airguns and air gunners are seen as capable, ethical, and responsible.

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

@Tompetersonhaircut Have you tired writing a letter and mailing it? Here’s the contact info.

Contact us

Need customer service? Looking for a regional office? Trying to find a specific WDFW employee? We live and work all over Washington, and we want to

wdfw.wa.gov

I did that to obtain information on an out of state hunting license because the info in that state’s hunting lregs was unclear. They sent the license and corrected the wording in the following year’s publication. It may be worth a try for you to write them well ahead of the season.

This is great advice. I had the same thought this morning. I’m glad it worked out for you. I think I will try it. I appreciate the response.

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

That's too bad ours seem pretty approachable and willing to talk it up ..

I’m jealous of that! I wish I could create more interpersonal connections with folks. I think living in a big city doesn’t help. Screens don’t help much either. Haha

I appreciate the replies. Thank you

 

[Hateful McNasty]

I’m jealous of that! I wish I could create more interpersonal connections with folks. I think living in a big city doesn’t help. Screens don’t help much either. Haha

I appreciate the replies. Thank you

So there's no branch office or post they work out of near you to visit ?

Regional offices

There a public office so they need to be public for you ....lol

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

Thanks all for the replies-

I was able to get someone on the phone and, as I suspected the interpretation exceeds the regulations as written.

The WDFW rep said that lead pellets would likely be considered “toxic shot”, even though they are not ammunition for a “shotgun”. He seemed to be referring to the “spirit of the law” not the “letter of the law”. I did present a counter argument about the wording, but that didn’t seem to compel him. As mentioned above, I want to avoid conflict and present our community in a positive light, so I didn’t press it.

I did however immediately order a few different makes/weights of lead free pellets, haha! Now I guess I need to figure out how to make either the GTOs or Barracuda Greens work for me. Silver lining- more testing and shooting!

Thanks again for the input y’all. Shoot safe!

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

So there's no branch office or post they work out of near you to visit ?

Regional offices

There a public office so they need to be public for you ....lol

Yeah, closest office is 24 extremely traffic filled miles from me. Not convenient unless I have an appointment and want to brave 60-90 minutes of driving. Glad I was able to get someone on the phone!

 

[Danman]

Thanks all for the replies-

I was able to get someone on the phone and, as I suspected the interpretation exceeds the regulations as written.

The WDFW rep said that lead pellets would likely be considered “toxic shot”, even though they are not ammunition for a “shotgun”. He seemed to be referring to the “spirit of the law” not the “letter of the law”. I did present a counter argument about the wording, but that didn’t seem to compel him. As mentioned above, I want to avoid conflict and present our community in a positive light, so I didn’t press it.

I did however immediately order a few different makes/weights of lead free pellets, haha! Now I guess I need to figure out how to make either the GTOs or Barracuda Greens work for me. Silver lining- more testing and shooting!

Thanks again for the input y’all. Shoot safe!

OK now that legalities are outta the way, lol ..... what guns you shooting and how far you thinking?! My S510 does well enough with the H&N greens.,12.3 grain I believe. Not minute of sparrow at 40Y but close! Bigger game may be a problem They fly faster (of course) but aren't great in my penetration tests and the expansion is almost non existent. I'd go with H&N copper coated!? Heavier and hit HARD!

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

OK now that legalities are outta the way, lol ..... what guns you shooting and how far you thinking?! My S510 does well enough with the H&N greens.,12.3 grain I believe. Not minute of sparrow at 40Y but close! Bigger game may be a problem They fly faster (of course) but aren't great in my penetration tests and the expansion is almost non existent. I'd go with H&N copper coated!? Heavier and hit HARD!

This is a great pivot! I am very excited to find a non-toxic pellet that will work in the areas where I will be expected to use them.

I am not anticipating any shots over 45 yards given the game (rabbit, grouse, grey squirrels, eurodoves) and the terrain I have scouted.

My current rifle option's, in order of preference for lugging through the field are:

.22 daystate revere
.25 RTI p-3
.22 HW 95
.22 AA Prosport

The pcps are set up to be hunters. The 95 is an option, but more for a barnyard or squirrel woods scenario. The PS is heavy and I got it primarily for plinking.

I have a deposit down on a 15” Evol in .22, but that’s looking more likely to be an option next season.

I have been considering selling a rifle or two to get a BRK ghost - seems very versatile and maybe a good candidate for switching up ammo weight/types. I was briefly bitten by the slug bug, but the fever has broken and I’m back to shooting pellets primarily so it is looking more attractive by the day.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

I don't know .. don't seem too confusing to me and pretty typical nation wide

Non-toxic shot requirements

Just for shooting migratory birds with shot gun modern or muzzle loader.

Now this air gun here may fall under that being it also does shotgun work

Gamo Viper Express Air Rifle Shotgun 22 Cal Black Gray Synthetic Stock

The Gamo Viper Express Air Rifle and Shotgun is a 22 caliber Single Cock Break Barrel Air Shotgun with a smoothbore steel barrel and ventilated rib. ...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

I don't know .. don't seem too confusing to me and pretty typical nation wide

Non-toxic shot requirements

Just for shooting migratory birds with shot gun modern or muzzle loader.

Now this air gun here may fall under that being it also does shotgun work

Gamo Viper Express Air Rifle Shotgun 22 Cal Black Gray Synthetic Stock

The Gamo Viper Express Air Rifle and Shotgun is a 22 caliber Single Cock Break Barrel Air Shotgun with a smoothbore steel barrel and ventilated rib. ...

www.midwayusa.com

That’s how I would interpret it. The officer I spoke with did not share that opinion.

I don’t think I will risk $1k fine and loss of hunting privileges for 2 years based on how the WDFW feels like interpreting the situation that day.

I will still write to the WDFW to see if I can get a definitive opinion in black and white, but until I hear back- I’ll shoot some lead free and just enjoy the learning process. I have other spots to hunt with lead if need be.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

If they can't give or train there own officers the letter of the laws why would they give it to you ,? Sounds like a blue state tatic ..lol.

Almost like officer don't know arrest or fine you and you deal with it at your expence . Even if you know full well and the officer don't he still fines you and you still deal with it at your expence .. lol

 

[BeemanHW100]

This is a great pivot! I am very excited to find a non-toxic pellet that will work in the areas where I will be expected to use them.

I am not anticipating any shots over 45 yards given the game (rabbit, grouse, grey squirrels, eurodoves) and the terrain I have scouted.

My current rifle option's, in order of preference for lugging through the field are:

.22 daystate revere
.25 RTI p-3
.22 HW 95
.22 AA Prosport

The pcps are set up to be hunters. The 95 is an option, but more for a barnyard or squirrel woods scenario. The PS is heavy and I got it primarily for plinking.

I have a deposit down on a 15” Evol in .22, but that’s looking more likely to be an option next season.

I have been considering selling a rifle or two to get a BRK ghost - seems very versatile and maybe a good candidate for switching up ammo weight/types. I was briefly bitten by the slug bug, but the fever has broken and I’m back to shooting pellets primarily so it is looking more attractive by the day.

Here at HAM we have had good luck accuracy wise with the Predator GTO pellets. Don’t know how good they would be for hunting though, probably not good since I haven’t heard of others using them but might be worth a try.

 

[Danman]

This is a great pivot! I am very excited to find a non-toxic pellet that will work in the areas where I will be expected to use them.

I am not anticipating any shots over 45 yards given the game (rabbit, grouse, grey squirrels, eurodoves) and the terrain I have scouted.

My current rifle option's, in order of preference for lugging through the field are:

.22 daystate revere
.25 RTI p-3
.22 HW 95
.22 AA Prosport

The pcps are set up to be hunters. The 95 is an option, but more for a barnyard or squirrel woods scenario. The PS is heavy and I got it primarily for plinking.

I have a deposit down on a 15” Evol in .22, but that’s looking more likely to be an option next season.

I have been considering selling a rifle or two to get a BRK ghost - seems very versatile and maybe a good candidate for switching up ammo weight/types. I was briefly bitten by the slug bug, but the fever has broken and I’m back to shooting pellets primarily so it is looking more attractive by the day.

Ah yes the Ghost, a serious pcp for hunting! Mine gets much less use then my AA for pesting because it's wheelhouse is 40 to 100 yards (absolutely useless under 20Yards) whereas the S510 is dialed to 20-60Y. I'd recommend for hunting scenarios with new ammo, test accuracy AND expansion/penetration at your distance with the lead free options you have. Nothing worse than smacking something and it just limps off. Some of the H&N green pellets I have recovered almost look like I could reload and shoot em again...but I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Tompetersonhaircut]

Ah yes the Ghost, a serious pcp for hunting! Mine gets much less use then my AA for pesting because it's wheelhouse is 40 to 100 yards (absolutely useless under 20Yards) whereas the S510 is dialed to 20-60Y. I'd recommend for hunting scenarios with new ammo, test accuracy AND expansion/penetration at your distance with the lead free options you have. Nothing worse than smacking something and it just limps off. Some of the H&N green pellets I have recovered almost look like I could reload and shoot em again...but I wouldn't risk it.

I got some H&N and GTOs this week and shot them our of my .25 RTI P-3 and my .22 Huntsman.
I’ve shot GTOs out of my .22 springers, but never looked at them as a potential hunting pellet.
I’m not surprised, but was holding out a little hope in the way they would shoot. I love my shotgun, but don’t want to see the same pattern from my airguns. Granted, I didn’t tune the P-3, but I don’t know if it’s worth it. I don’t like dodging ricochets…

I did get some lead free Zan slugs and they seem like they have a little potential to at least group. They also have a little more weight, so may be worth further testing for penetration.

Bottom line- if I can’t be certain of an ethical kill, I won’t be using the lead frees.

I am curious what qualities make the ghost no good under 20?