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Info Regs best secrets
- Thread starter Solo1
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 16
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I apologize up front for answering a question with a question, but what exactly is the measuring stick for this?
How much reg creep is acceptable?
Refresh rate?
Other?
Danman
Grand HAMster
Im all ears, my ghost reg needs love, ever since adjusting it last year it has become wonky. Its back down to 140Bar from the 150 i had set it too, and I haven't touched the knob since last yr. Once the bottle pressure drops to 180ish the reg pressure start dropping too (gauges are fine). It took an insane amount of twisting up to get it to stay at 150B when i tuned it.
Its coming apart some day for inspection and some love. Reg rebuild kits are standing by!
Its coming apart some day for inspection and some love. Reg rebuild kits are standing by!
Centerfire
HAM Specialist
Hey Danman, I'm sort of new but I would offer my limited experence with my Delta Wolf's regulator.
Start with empty (zero) air pressure. Clear tyhe plenum also. Then rotate the regulator (maybe clockwise) to zero out the Regulator. You only can increase the regulator pressure when under pressure.
I shoot JSB 18.13 pellets on the Factory Setting.
Fill the bottle 240-250 bar and then check the computer for the reg pressure suggested like 125 bar.
Carefully rotate (CCW) the regulator to say 127-129 bar (at the top of the computer screen.)
Shoot a pellet and check the regulator. It may be 128 or less. Shoot another pellet and see what the regulator says.
If above 126 Bar adjust the regulator just a wee bit back to the 128-129 bar setting. Like .003"-.005" rotation.
Now just start shooting and keep looking at the regulator each shot, as mine will keep decreasing BUT after a couple of shots the regulator may hold at a setting for 3-4 shots before continuing to decrease--then hold--then decrease you get the procedure. It just moves! Now on my DW when I get around 140 bar, Bottle, the regulator does not like this area so it is time to degas, clear the plenum of air, take the regulator to zero and start all over again. Works for me, hope this helps. If I made any mistakes let me know. It looks like you are experencing what I have shared just at a higher regulator setting.
Start with empty (zero) air pressure. Clear tyhe plenum also. Then rotate the regulator (maybe clockwise) to zero out the Regulator. You only can increase the regulator pressure when under pressure.
I shoot JSB 18.13 pellets on the Factory Setting.
Fill the bottle 240-250 bar and then check the computer for the reg pressure suggested like 125 bar.
Carefully rotate (CCW) the regulator to say 127-129 bar (at the top of the computer screen.)
Shoot a pellet and check the regulator. It may be 128 or less. Shoot another pellet and see what the regulator says.
If above 126 Bar adjust the regulator just a wee bit back to the 128-129 bar setting. Like .003"-.005" rotation.
Now just start shooting and keep looking at the regulator each shot, as mine will keep decreasing BUT after a couple of shots the regulator may hold at a setting for 3-4 shots before continuing to decrease--then hold--then decrease you get the procedure. It just moves! Now on my DW when I get around 140 bar, Bottle, the regulator does not like this area so it is time to degas, clear the plenum of air, take the regulator to zero and start all over again. Works for me, hope this helps. If I made any mistakes let me know. It looks like you are experencing what I have shared just at a higher regulator setting.
Any two parts that rub together or inside something else, unless perfectly smooth already with a really good lube can almost always benefit from polishing. In a reg the only moving part is usually the bellville washer stack, which rub against themselves and on the steel pin their stacked on. The really important thing is to check for any sharp edges any where on the washers inside and out, and that the flats are smooth. It is as simple as it sounds. If the washers start out looking good already, I start with 1000 grit sandpaper and finish with 2000 grit. If the washers start out with some sharp edges I'll start with 400 grit. Once they are all polished up, smooth, with no sharp edges, lube them up wiith whatever you like to use.
The only exception that I know to this is with AAA regulators. These are the best made regulators that I have ever seen or worked on and the only ones I know of that the washers are stone washed/tumbled to give them a smooth but irregular surface that doesn't stick to themselves. You don't polish these, you leave them alone.
All you're doing with most of these is accelerating the break in and possibly using a better lube than regular silicone. AAA recommends ultimox226 and thats what I use for the most part. There is no big secret that I know of but I would suggest that you change all of the orings if you are going to bother to pull one out.
The best 'measuring stick' video that I have seen on this would be air-shootist's video promoting his reg butter lube. It doesn't hurt that he is an NRL22 champion that uses his own product too. Honestly, I still have not tried it, but I will at some point.
Often, especially with the FX crowd, they will say their reg is as good as a Huma and there is no real difference. The best video (by someone with no sponsership) that I have seen that was done well, was a video by the viking airgunner where he ran all the refresh numbers and creep times of both, over quite a period of time, to show that there is in fact a measurable difference. If you own, or are wondering, if the difference would mean anything to you, because you own an FX, watch his video. I have read about the same results by a lot of different people, but that's the only video I know of that shows it in one particular airgun.
At some point you have to choose who you are going to believe if you don't have the time to test everything yourself. If you are a voracious watcher of all content, print and video, you will definately see trends to pursue and investigate, or ignore, whatever the case may be.
To answer your question, no creep is acceptable. If my original production Gauntlet's Ninja regulator (I did polish the bellvilles) has never creeped, this on the first "PPP" price point pcp under $300, then no ones very expensive regulator, in a very expensive gun, should creep either. None of my regulated guns have any creep unless they need servicing and that takes years to happen, if it does at all. As far as the refresh rate goes, that should be better than it is if we can now have some of these air guns shooting full auto, shouldn't it?
The only measuring stick is what you will put up with, measured against everything that you've learned and seen, that's it.
- Original poster
- #7
Have links to the 2 video’s you mentioned?
No, I have never had to change one comp!etely. I have added shims to change pressure. If someone had tested out a new bellvil!e washer made to a higher standard or a better material, I would certainly try it, but I am not going to do the research for something that already works so well for me. That is a really good question though!
Ugh! I shoudn't mention videos unless I have the links ready. I do get mad when others mention must watch videos and don't post the link though, so:
Thank you Sir, I appreciate your perspective.
I’m still learning and trying different approaches to power and efficiency for my style of shooting. But as far as the reg butter goes, I have come to the conclusion that it is for competitive shooting.
The number one reason why is that it requires mixing each time before use (what is it doing while sitting in the reg long term?), a competitor who rebuilds their regulator every time before a serious match this is not an issue. However, someone like myself that once I get a good tune I’m not going to mess with it until something goes wrong.
I believe that once a regulator is broken in so long as there is no defect or other inherit issue, that ammo weight and diameter (sorting) are far more important for consistency. At least in my little world that statement holds true.
Billm
Grand HAMster
Last edited:
I’ve thought about this a lot and I don’t see how polishing the Belleville washers would have much affect. They don’t spin, they compress. From what I can see, they only make contact with each other near the rims and with the piston stem. I just don’t see how polishing them would help with the compression. The washers don’t make contact with the cylinder. Maybe polishing the centers would help. My piston had burrs that I polished. These are just my thoughts and nothing scientific. I agree it can’t hurt to polish them.
They press against each other. That compression can be crunchy or smooth. I think smooth on smooth is better, but then again my AAA reg is stonewashed and that works great. Still, if I polish, I polish everything so that I don't have to wonder if that is going to be a problem.
Billm
Grand HAMster
Yeah, I see your point. You’re there, you might as well polish them. I saw your other post about the AAA reg being stonewashed. Stonewashing is usually a treatment that leaves a rough matte finish, but it would deburr as well. But isn’t it more of a protective finish?
Tom Costan said, iirc, that it was more about making the surface more slippery because they don't stick together as much. Like a golf ball in the wind. I dunno but his is my favorite reg so far, an outstanding beefy unit. Macavity's reg is really nice too, kind of a sleeper that nobody talks about, which is a good thing too for the right reason.
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