Others Pre dryer

[alamogunr]

If you read the above comments from the beginning, the science is pretty resolute. What gun are you shooting btw?

My PCP is a Daystate Huntsman Revere. I've only been into airguns about 3 years. I went a little overboard on my first, a Weihrauch HW95. Also went a little overboard during the break in period and strained every thing in my right arm by cocking too much at one session. That is mainly why I went to PCP.

I've read every post in this thread. I can't disagree that a dryer/filter on the output side might be preferable. But I'm not ready to spend a lot of $$ on an output dryer/filter. I've yet to see an inexpensive DIY one. I apologize if anyone is offended that I'm going ahead with a DIY dryer/filter(the filter part may be a stretch) on the input side for no other reason than reducing the introduction/reduction of moisture to the compressor and subsequently the tank and gun.
John

PS This is one of the best airgun sites I've found

 

[AtlasAirguns]

My PCP is a Daystate Huntsman Revere. I've only been into airguns about 3 years. I went a little overboard on my first, a Weihrauch HW95. Also went a little overboard during the break in period and strained every thing in my right arm by cocking too much at one session. That is mainly why I went to PCP.

I've read every post in this thread. I can't disagree that a dryer/filter on the output side might be preferable. But I'm not ready to spend a lot of $$ on an output dryer/filter. I've yet to see an inexpensive DIY one. I apologize if anyone is offended that I'm going ahead with a DIY dryer/filter(the filter part may be a stretch) on the input side for no other reason than reducing the introduction/reduction of moisture to the compressor and subsequently the tank and gun.
John

PS This is one of the best airgun sites I've found

The beauty of this sport is you can go different routes for your needs. Offended? I don't think anyone here would feel that way about anything in your post/s.

In-line filters are about $70 bucks for a Tuxing but I understand you can buy fish tank tubing, a plastic cup, and desiccant beads for next to nothing.

I just fixed a customer's regulator today that had failed because of moisture. It is the number one culprit I see with failures in orings, valves, and regulators.

But enough of my input. Hope to read the pre-dry updates. Please open your guns up from time to time and look at the valve and regulator.

 

[hameditor]

My PCP is a Daystate Huntsman Revere. I've only been into airguns about 3 years. I went a little overboard on my first, a Weihrauch HW95. Also went a little overboard during the break in period and strained every thing in my right arm by cocking too much at one session. That is mainly why I went to PCP.

I've read every post in this thread. I can't disagree that a dryer/filter on the output side might be preferable. But I'm not ready to spend a lot of $$ on an output dryer/filter. I've yet to see an inexpensive DIY one. I apologize if anyone is offended that I'm going ahead with a DIY dryer/filter(the filter part may be a stretch) on the input side for no other reason than reducing the introduction/reduction of moisture to the compressor and subsequently the tank and gun.
John

PS This is one of the best airgun sites I've found

@alamogunr - thanks for the compliment. I'm glad you like the HAM Community!

 

[alamogunr]

As I indicated in an earlier post, I ordered the things I needed to build a pre-drier as shown in the first post of this thread. The biggest problem I had was finding a fitting to connect tubing to the input of the compressor. No one knew the thread size of the existing fitting. Alan thought it might be M10-1. His compressor may have that thread size but what I received was obviously too small. Also as I mentioned earlier, When I checked at Lowe's thread checker, I determined that it might be M14-1.5, so I ordered that size. When I received them, they DID NOT FIT. These got returned to Amazon. In the meantime the rest of my order was delivered which included plastic tube fittings that were correct for the filter housing. Turns out they were also correct for the air input to the compressor. Checking back to the size I ordered, It is 1/4 NPT X 3/8 Tube OD. (Amazon.com)
I can't explain why the M14 fittings didn't work.

Now that I have everything needed, I'll try to put it together in the next few days. I'm no good at posting pictures but since I'm using the picture Alan posted as a guide, I'm sure that you get the idea.

 

[rcs9250]

Are you going to have any sort of filter media just before compressor. If you’re using molecular sieve beads they can have an abrasive dust on them that your compressor might breathe them into the cylinder. Like a felt disk or something.

 

[alamogunr]

Actually, I'm using the first picture in this thread as a guide. The cylinders came with a foam disk to retain the media. I suppose a felt disc might be better if the 2nd cylinder filled with silica gel is not sufficient. I have some 1/4 inch felt that I use to cut wads for a cap & ball revolver that I can use. I'm following the original poster's recommendations to the letter, mainly because the molecular sieve material has no indicator when it is full. The silica gel that I have turns from blue to pink when it is full. I can then replace the molecular sieve with new material and reclaim the silica gel in the oven. I have about 3-4 quart cans of silica gel material that I bought from my employer before I retired. I'm still using the first can in my gun safe and have redried it at least 3 times in 18 years.

I appreciate the heads up about the dust from the molecular sieve.

 

[Danman]

Actually, I'm using the first picture in this thread as a guide. The cylinders came with a foam disk to retain the media. I suppose a felt disc might be better if the 2nd cylinder filled with silica gel is not sufficient. I have some 1/4 inch felt that I use to cut wads for a cap & ball revolver that I can use. I'm following the original poster's recommendations to the letter, mainly because the molecular sieve material has no indicator when it is full. The silica gel that I have turns from blue to pink when it is full. I can then replace the molecular sieve with new material and reclaim the silica gel in the oven. I have about 3-4 quart cans of silica gel material that I bought from my employer before I retired. I'm still using the first can in my gun safe and have redried it at least 3 times in 18 years.

I appreciate the heads up about the dust from the molecular sieve.

My Hill hand pump uses those same 2 products and there is some sturdy filter media blocking the dust particles from getting into the pump body.... Definitely a good recommendation for sure

 

[Alan]

Atlas, I continually hear the same argument, and in fact it has been posted on this thread previously, as are the reason why pre-drying is preferred.

Post drying works, as I've stated previously. The real issue is, you can't tell when the desiccant is finished (no longer doing its job). In the case of the pre-drying, the indicator (silica gel in the second container) is a very good and well known desiccant.

If you will, tell me how you tell the post drying, desiccant material, is checked for effectiveness?

 

[rcs9250]

Atlas, I continually hear the same argument, and in fact it has been posted on this thread previously, as are the reason why pre-drying is preferred.

Post drying works, as I've stated previously. The real issue is, you can't tell when the desiccant is finished (no longer doing its job). In the case of the pre-drying, the indicator (silica gel in the second container) is a very good and well known desiccant.

If you will, tell me how you tell the post drying, desiccant material, is checked for effectiveness?

In the scuba bussiness we replaced the post compression molecular sieve cartridge after a certain amount of cubic footage or a date interval recommended by the sieve manufacturer. Primarily that was done to assure the air moisture was maintained at a Grade E level. And most likely that cubic footage/time interval was pretty conservative. We also were requited to have an air sample sent out for testing every six months.
We’ll never know the dryness of pre-drying until someone ponies up to have a sample analyzed.

 

[Alan]

In SCUBA, it is also important to remove other contaminants like blow by oil.

 

[rcs9250]

In SCUBA, it is also important to remove other contaminants like blow by oil.

That’s all taken care of in a standard molecular sieve cartdidge. This discussion has been about moisture. Pre-drying is a waste of time and materials. Post drying is THEE way the world does it because it works and along with centrifugal post drying after each stage pre-drying will never ever be as efficient.
The argument is, does an airgun require Grade E air? Most manufacturers recommend dry air. Pre-drying has never been tested to compare to Grade E air so any conversation is a waste of time until an analysis is done.

 

[Danman]

Well I just ordered a fill swap kit for my S510, hoping to put the 'normal' quick connect style and be done with the air arms quirky fill connector and both my pcps will be the same to fill then. I will be fully inspecting the tank and report on what I see, or don't see! She has been hand pumped her whole (short 1 year) life with just the pre dryer installed, during shooting season its once weekly if not more.

 

[bchannell]

I was curious, as someone earlier mentioned that you definitely did not want to restrict the inlet to your compressor. I can only speak to GX compressors, of which I have three and service several more for club members, and I have run them momentarily with the inlet completely closed off several time with no damage so far. You can tell immediately when the compressor runs faster than normal. While I wouldn't think it would be good to do it long term, I doubt a restricted inlet filter would be a problem. The filter is not going to catch that much debris to plug it off, unless you use it for a few years and in a dirty environment. Now it would definitely be moisture laden long before that. However, I'm not convinced inlet filters do that much good. We used to use them in the laboratory to filter air to equipment like gas chromatographs, but the inlet air was compressed. I just can't see 5 or so psi air giving up a lot of it's moisture to inlet filters, but I'm open to a good idea on it.

 

[AtlasAirguns]

Atlas, I continually hear the same argument, and in fact it has been posted on this thread previously, as are the reason why pre-drying is preferred.

Post drying works, as I've stated previously. The real issue is, you can't tell when the desiccant is finished (no longer doing its job). In the case of the pre-drying, the indicator (silica gel in the second container) is a very good and well known desiccant.

If you will, tell me how you tell the post drying, desiccant material, is checked for effectiveness?

Preferred by whom?

For my filter I ran moisture indicating silica gel for the first 3 cartridge uses to see how long it took to capture moisture for my particular compressor. It takes 5 times for the Tuxing cartridge to be spent or an actual run time of 1.3 hours. I change it out every 45 minutes now. The filter is easy to open.

Additionally, I do open up my rifles a good bit. The proof is always when you open them up. I have seen the effects of the "pre-dry" filters vis-a-vis the Hill hand-pumps, and they simply do not work. I really like Hill as a company, but I am shocked they even run that as a marketing ploy.

If I changed compressors I would just do the same process to make scheduled refills. Personally I don't use my compressor much because I fill at a scuba shop. And yes, they have in-line filters and really nice ones at that.

 

[Danman]

Preferred by whom?

For my filter I ran moisture indicating silica gel for the first 3 cartridge uses to see how long it took to capture moisture for my particular compressor. It takes 5 times for the Tuxing cartridge to be spent or an actual run time of 1.3 hours. I change it out every 45 minutes now. The filter is easy to open.

Additionally, I do open up my rifles a good bit. The proof is always when you open them up. I have seen the effects of the "pre-dry" filters vis-a-vis the Hill hand-pumps, and they simply do not work. I really like Hill as a company, but I am shocked they even run that as a marketing ploy.

If I changed compressors I would just do the same process to make scheduled refills. Personally I don't use my compressor much because I fill at a scuba shop. And yes, they have in-line filters and really nice ones at that.

Well folks I just tore apart my Hill Hand pump with the expensive predryer as it was spraying water out I would very much agree the predryer is NOT a good stand alone setup. All throughout the pumps body was moisture in each chamber (3 stage pump) I cleaned, dried, lubed everything, replaced desiccant, and most importantly installed a decent sized post dryer moisture filter inline. It is 100% only used inside in the climate controlled AC/Heat with HRV system...you get the idea. I had changed the desiccant in spring so it was coming due for a swap but still....some of the bottom beads hadn't changed color yet.

 

[rcs9250]

Well folks I just tore apart my Hill Hand pump with the expensive predryer as it was spraying water out I would very much agree the predryer is NOT a good stand alone setup. All throughout the pumps body was moisture in each chamber (3 stage pump) I cleaned, dried, lubed everything, replaced desiccant, and most importantly installed a decent sized post dryer moisture filter inline. It is 100% only used inside in the climate controlled AC/Heat with HRV system...you get the idea. I had changed the desiccant in spring so it was coming due for a swap but still....some of the bottom beads hadn't changed color yet.

What kind of post drier did you add?

 

[AtlasAirguns]

Well folks I just tore apart my Hill Hand pump with the expensive predryer as it was spraying water out I would very much agree the predryer is NOT a good stand alone setup. All throughout the pumps body was moisture in each chamber (3 stage pump) I cleaned, dried, lubed everything, replaced desiccant, and most importantly installed a decent sized post dryer moisture filter inline. It is 100% only used inside in the climate controlled AC/Heat with HRV system...you get the idea. I had changed the desiccant in spring so it was coming due for a swap but still....some of the bottom beads hadn't changed color yet.

Man that sucks. I’m sorry. Glad you caught it early. The science is only on one side on this issue but people think they can overcome the realities of compression and condensation. I had one gentleman a few years ago protest the science and basically said there was no moisture ever being introduced by hand-pumps and that I and others were fear mongering. Flash forward two years, I see him on Facebook talking about how all of his Airguns were damaged internally from…wait for it, moisture….


We can not like it. We can try to ignore it. But it make itself known.

 

[Danman]

Indeed, moisture is a problem, now I know how bad it was! I fear for my S510s internals a bit, if I get that quick connect fill upgrade for it I will strip it down and let u folks know what I find! Will be full stripping the pump at any sign of water going forward. To answer your question @rcs9250 I bought the A.V. inline moisture trap. No it's not 100% effective but it beats the crap outta what I had before. The trick is to check the felt material (will act like a sponge) dry it out or replace it as required. It also will let u know how the pump is doing ie what is coming out along with the HPA.

 

[rcs9250]

Indeed, moisture is a problem, now I know how bad it was! I fear for my S510s internals a bit, if I get that quick connect fill upgrade for it I will strip it down and let u folks know what I find! Will be full stripping the pump at any sign of water going forward. To answer your question @rcs9250 I bought the A.V. inline moisture trap. No it's not 100% effective but it beats the crap outta what I had before. The trick is to check the felt material (will act like a sponge) dry it out or replace it as required. It also will let u know how the pump is doing ie what is coming out along with the HPA.

Anything you do will of course help. A molecular sieve with a PMV is the standard for “dry” air. Think those cylindrical cotton filters remove any humidity is wrong. There is always a level of humidity in the air around us. If you hang a dry towel out side on a humid day for a couple hours and then try wringing out any moisture, you’ll get nothing. It has to be removed by a more sophisticated means.

 

[Danman]

Anything you do will of course help. A molecular sieve with a PMV is the standard for “dry” air. Think those cylindrical cotton filters remove any humidity is wrong. There is always a level of humidity in the air around us. If you hang a dry towel out side on a humid day for a couple hours and then try wringing out any moisture, you’ll get nothing. It has to be removed by a more sophisticated means.

Molecular media would be better indeed... hoping to trap liquid moisture from traveling up, and as a gauge to see how things are looking. Before all I could do was strip pump to see, look at coupler end, or look at bleeder valve area on floor for any signs of moisture. I shy'd away from getting a big filter for a hand pump...it's bad enough without the extra cc of a huge filter body Important thing I believe is to open it to atmosphere so it can dry instead of trapping the moisture inside for the next time I fill the pcps.