Others If you were designing a new springer....

[Kragman1]

....what would the product envelope look like?
Also, what existing design elements (from any and all manufacturers) would you want to incorporate into your

Examples of product envelope would be: length/weight; break barrel vs side lever vs underlever; barrel length; whether the rifle would have sights (and what type) or not, etc. etc.
Examples of design elements would be: short transfer port; trigger (T06 vs Rekord for instance); integral or external scope rail (as well as dovetail vs picatinny, etc); safety design or even the absence of one; choked barrel?; and so on.

Please be realistic if you take a swing at this - for example, a 4 lb rifle making 50 fpe isn't very realistic.
But a 6 lb rifle making 15 fpe in .22 could happen, especially with modern stock materials. It would probably be much too jumpy for me though.

Anyway, I really hope that some savvy, seasoned shooters take this up.
I'm eager to see the results.

 

[Franklink]

FBW300s quality and design, but scaled up via either longer stroke or greater diameter piston so that it produces 12fpe.
Keep the trigger. Keep the side cocking. Keep everything, just make it produce 12fpe in .177.

And a picatinny rail if I'm being really choosey.

Do the above and I don't even care how long or heavy it would be.

Preemptively....no, the Diana sled design doesn't even hold the slightest candle to how well the FWB300s series were built. Too many thin sheet metal parts for the Diana to even be considered in the same time zone, much less the same continent as a 300s.

 

[Farmplinker2]

Cometa and Weirauch 12 <=fpe... but more weight. Weight helps with stability in shooting springers.

 

[pan60]

remove the springer engine from the rear of the barrel and flip it around backward fit it into a receiver block lengthen the barrell but over all shorten the enire gun side lever I could come up with other thoughts but that alone would rectify many of the springers issues IMHO

 

[Kragman1]

Well, if I were doing this, I'd want a medium powered .22 of modest weight and high quality. Sort of an illegitimate love child of a Cometa 400 and an HW95.

- Break barrel. No preference of chisel vs ball lockup, but the SIG ASP bearing surfaces and hinge pin machining method should be utilized.
- Weight around 7 lbs unscoped. 6.5 would be nice.
- I'd like something that works comfortably in the 18-20 fpe range.
- a 28mm comp tube sounds about right to me. 30 may work well too, like the FWB Sport. Vortek piston seal to avoid using an overpowered spring.
- Short transfer port as well.
- modest stroke length.
- Resettable safety, works front to rear but controls are on the side to avoid scope clearance issues.
- Record trigger but with either a stainless or brass adjustment screw - NO aluminum. A T06 will make me just as happy.
- Light weight stock made of high quality modern materials. NOT "Tupperware". Grippy but not rubberized texture.
- A true Nitride treatment would be inexpensive and better at keeping rust away than stainless. Look at the CZ 457 rimfire rifles for the finish I mean.
- Articulated cocking arm to maintain a non- or barely slotted stock. Being able to sling such a rifle is an added bonus.
- A welded on Picatinny rail.
- Perfectly good sights. Plastic bodies don't scare me. Typically "tight", compared to many cast or steel sights.
- The forend should have a bit of flat sculpting at the belly to be handy on a bench bag.
- Replaceable cheekpiece inserts - you can have the height you like, without the extra weight of a wobbly, adjustable one.
- A RUBBER BUTT PAD!!

 

[Danman]

Well, if I were doing this, I'd want a medium powered .22 of modest weight and high quality. Sort of an illegitimate love child of a Cometa 400 and an HW95.

- Break barrel. No preference of chisel vs ball lockup, but the SIG ASP bearing surfaces and hinge pin machining method should be utilized.
- Weight around 7 lbs unscoped. 6.5 would be nice.
- I'd like something that works comfortably in the 18-20 fpe range.
- a 28mm comp tube sounds about right to me. 30 may work well too, like the FWB Sport. Vortek piston seal to avoid using an overpowered spring.
- Short transfer port as well.
- modest stroke length.
- Resettable safety, works front to rear but controls are on the side to avoid scope clearance issues.
- Record trigger but with either a stainless or brass adjustment screw - NO aluminum. A T06 will make me just as happy.
- Light weight stock made of high quality modern materials. NOT "Tupperware". Grippy but not rubberized texture.
- A true Nitride treatment would be inexpensive and better at keeping rust away than stainless. Look at the CZ 457 rimfire rifles for the finish I mean.
- Articulated cocking arm to maintain a non- or barely slotted stock. Being able to sling such a rifle is an added bonus.
- A welded on Picatinny rail.
- Perfectly good sights. Plastic bodies don't scare me. Typically "tight", compared to many cast or steel sights.
- The forend should have a bit of flat sculpting at the belly to be handy on a bench bag.
- Replaceable cheekpiece inserts - you can have the height you like, without the extra weight of a wobbly, adjustable one.
- A RUBBER BUTT PAD!!

Have you ever checked out the bluing on an AA springer? (TX or Prosport!) Their is no gun (Air or powder) out there with better quality wood work or metal finishing. My dad is a machinist and didn't think it was bluing but some sort of paint or magic... lol. The only problem with that is it's tough to take it out and get it roughed up. On that note, I don't do that with mine as it .177 and at 13Fpe it's a little to weak for most pesting I do. It has zero problems making hits, just can't anchor effectively. Having said that I'd design something with a bit more of a robust stock like you mentioned. 16Fpe in .177 or 20fpe in .22 being ideal. Id go underlever like the AA but I'd want a full size loading port like an HW. The TX heft, overall length, shot cycle, accuracy, build quality is spot on, but in .177 it lacks the oomph and in .22 it's a bit slow. Agreed on the butt pad!...my weakest AG is a 5.5 fpe slavia and (I kid you not) get a little sore after shooting 50+ pellets through it, as it doesn't have one.

 

[Kragman1]

Danman, I think you should try to find someone with a Diana 460 in .22....
22 fpe is typical, but they shoot VERY nicely at 18-20.

Under appreciated by those who don't know them, highly respected by those who do.

I just put a Titan XS #8 into mine and it's making around 25 fpe. I'd actually like to clip a coil or 2 off the spring but the rifle seems to like it as-is!

You could do any pesting you like with such a rifle. And some loooong range shooting too! No balloon would be safe at 100...

 

[Hoppalong Doc]

I'm not a freaking engineer, i'm a stone throwing caveman, looking for the simplest way to hit that wrascley wrabbit from 25 stones out (I love my catapults . . . err, springers). I'm sticking with my TX200 & HW97K. Orv.

 

[Pumacarl]

Besides using plastic in the trigger group and making the trigger pull too heavy and having a ridiculous bonded moderator, SIG had made an excellent springer, as good or better than anything out there. I can't believe they gave up all that work so quickly. If they would have taken the user feedback and improved on it they would have really had something. With that said though, I really like the recoilless designs, Giss or sled.

 

[Bladebum]

If I was going to design what I think would be the perfect springer, it would somehow be a combo of the hw95 with the sig ASP20. Somewhere between 15-18 ft lbs in 22 cal, length close to 95 or "carbine" like, weight around 7 lbs. Lockup mechanism and picatinny rail from the ASP20 along with the metal finish and asthetic features. A safety that is not auto engaged and can be re-engaged. A stout sound suppression system on the muzzle as well.