Others Cost of using Nitrogen vs filters for hpa

[bchannell]

There's been a fair bit of putzing about the cost of setup and use of Nitrogen for the feed to a compressor such as the GX CS2. Here's some numbers to consider.

Nitrogen setup:
* initial purchase of N2 40 cu/ft cylinder, $200
* N2 hvac regulator $75
****note that each are easily purchased used and if/when you give up your cylinder, you can get your deposit back, so that is only a cost as long as you have the tank.
I use a lot of N2, both for hvac work and airguns, but I'm guessing I use a 40 cu/ft tank every two months just for airguns, best guess. Most users, I would imagine could go a couple months or more.

Filter setup:
* Amazon large cartridge filter $70
* filter cartridges 2@ $35

Yearly comparison:
Nitrogen: assuming a use of 1 cyl per every 3 months, @ $18 per refill, is $72 @ year.

Filters: if replaced every three months, $70 @ year.

Benefits of N2 use:
* no worries about lubricant used as no O2 is present, (I know small worry)
* no moisture ever in compressor or gun, ZERO.
* no filters to change and try to decide on an interval.
* faster fills for two reasons, 1) slightly higher inlet pressure, 2) No filter to fill every time.

I've been using N2 for quite a while now and can tell you the compressor, when inspected, is as clean as new, no moisture or rust whatsoever.

 

[Bob1]

That is a good comparison, thank you. I own a 40 cf nitrogen cylinder and regulator from a project two years ago. I bought them used and never sold them when I finished the project. We pressure tested copper pipes that were going to be under concrete, in case you were wondering.

I was concerned about the weight of the cylinder and the compressor when going shooting. I guess I could build a box of some sort to hold the charging equipment in the back of my van and not worry about lifting it.

Looks like nitrogen is the better solution to avoiding moisture, especially since I have the expensive pieces on hand.

 

[Bob1]

What flow rate do you set your nitrogen regulator at when feeding your compressor?

 

[elwoodblues]

I feed my GX CS2 about 10 psi my GX CS4 gets fed 13 ltm aka 25 cuft hr the Tuxing twin gets 15psi
My most used is the CS4 so it gets the flowgauge. I have 3 Nitrogen tanks a 20cuft alum a 120 cuft
and a 150cuft my fills cost $20 bucks I mainly use the 120 swap it about 5 times a year 600cuft year.
WV prices seem pretty high you can buy a 150 size nitrogen tank for 200 bucks in WA.
Anyone looking in to this should ck local welding supply stores if you can ck more than 1 next option fire extinguisher co or anyone dealing in industrial gases

 

[Bob1]

I feed my GX CS2 about 10 psi my GX CS4 gets fed 13 ltm aka 25 cuft hr the Tuxing twin gets 15psi
My most used is the CS4 so it gets the flowgauge. I have 3 Nitrogen tanks a 20cuft alum a 120 cuft
and a 150cuft my fills cost $20 bucks I mainly use the 120 swap it about 5 times a year 600cuft year.
WV prices seem pretty high you can buy a 150 size nitrogen tank for 200 bucks in WA.
Anyone looking in to this should ck local welding supply stores if you can ck more than 1 next option fire extinguisher co or anyone dealing in industrial gases

When using your CS4 what flow rate do you use? What flow meter do you use?

Lots of used cylinders available in this area. If I find my little 40cf tank runs out too quickly I can easily swap it for a 60cf or larger for just a few dollars.

Sorry for all these questions but being new to PCP I like to know what to expect before I spend money.

 

[elwoodblues]

I use a cheap flowgauge it's a no name that came with a cheap 110v mig welder the flow is set at 25cfhr that is the same as 13 litre's min the CS4 is rated to produce 11liters a minute

 

[bchannell]

Yeah, everone says our n2 is higher than theirs, I guess WV is low on n2, so we have to ship it in
I feed mine between 9-10 psi and it lives well.
As to weight, if I were to take my stuff to a range, I would either:
1) buy a small tank that would suffice for the day
2) just pump air for that day, as I doubt you could get in any trouble with moisture in one day, especially if you go right back to n2, it would simply blow thru and be gone.
3) get me a decent filter for use at the range

 

[Bob1]

If one is using nitrogen straight from the tank into compressor, what is the filter for?

I had been filling my Ghost while in my A/C'd shop and thought the air would be dry enough without adding a desiccant filter. After six, maybe seven fills I got a small cloud of thin smoke on a dry fire. Pretty sure it was vapor. So I immediately set up the nitrogen cylinder for the next fill. The GX cs4i had already been modded for using nitrogen.

If that thin cloud I saw was vapor will using nitrogen purge any moisture in the Ghost? Do not want to disassemble a new gun to find out if I can avoid it.

 

[bchannell]

I think it would probably do aware with any moisture, but if it were me, I would open the cylinder and take a look to be sure.
I only use a small, (tiny, actually) cotton filter in my N2 setup to catch any grease or debris from the compressor. Probably not needed but I feel better.

 

[Lowndes]

If one is using nitrogen straight from the tank into compressor, what is the filter for?

I had been filling my Ghost while in my A/C'd shop and thought the air would be dry enough without adding a desiccant filter. After six, maybe seven fills I got a small cloud of thin smoke on a dry fire. Pretty sure it was vapor. So I immediately set up the nitrogen cylinder for the next fill. The GX cs4i had already been modded for using nitrogen.

If that thin cloud I saw was vapor will using nitrogen purge any moisture in the Ghost? Do not want to disassemble a new gun to find out if I can avoid it.

Hey, Bob1. As I understand it, Ni2 will not absorb any moisture (that's what makes it so good). It would be like trying to wipe up a spill with a plastic cutting board. If you were just blowing the moisture out of a smooth tube, it would work, but there are so many joints, crooks and crannies inside the action, I doubt there's any way to blow it out. You could just open up the Ghost (partial disassembly) and let it sit for a few hours inside your heated home. The RH this time of year inside is way low. Right now mine is 36% inside (87% outside) and wet dishes are dry in 15 min. Maybe put a small fan blowing across it. Just don't let it sit wet.

 

[Bob1]

I have used nothing but Ni2 since that vapor puff last summer. Never took the gun apart to look but have not noticed any vapor or problems since and have shot close to 2000 pellets since.

 

[bchannell]

N2 will pick up and carry some moisture out via the blast of pressure upon firing, so that probably takes care of what might have gotten in. But, also, it's not unusual when using air to see a vapor puff when firing or dry firing, from instant condensation cooling.

 

[Lowndes]

N2 will pick up and carry some moisture out via the blast of pressure upon firing, so that probably takes care of what might have gotten in. But, also, it's not unusual when using air to see a vapor puff when firing or dry firing, from instant condensation cooling.

Bcchannell, that seems very reasonable for any moisture in the small passages from the rifle/pistol's reservoir tank to the chamber and out the barrel. For moisture inside the tank, that would seem unlikely unless it was discharged at a high enough angle (vertical) to put the discharge valve at the very bottom and sat long enough to collect the draining moisture at the discharge valve.

For a PCP that has been charged with ambient air, it might be good practice to store the piece vertically with the discharge valve at the bottom and kept vertical until discharged (dry fired) several times to clear the condensate.

The "instant condensation" in the "vapor puff" could be from moisture in the compressed discharge air and/or from moisture in the surrounding ambient air. That would mean that a "vapor puff" would not necessarily indicate any moisture in the system.