Compact, Light, Capable Pest/Rat Gun - Canada

[sipl]

Hey everyone. First I should say that I'm in Canada, and that is going to really dictate (restrict) options and availability of everything. Note; I have an R/PAL License.
Also, I'm a newb. Just so you know where I'm coming from. And please correct me where I'm wrong. I want to learn.

I'm not sure where to start. But I'm essentially looking for what the the options for airguns that meet the ideal criteria for a capable pest airgun in Canada. And also, how should one setup said airgun for the specified use, or how you set it up? When I say "pest", I mean basically squirrel sized pests (rodents, birds, similar sized nuisances).

Before I end up writing a novel, and providing too much detail (I'm bad for that), I'll just say what characteristics I think a pest gun like this should have - or maybe better put "what I'd want in one".

Not in particular order:

1) Compact. Mostly overall length. As short as Canadianly possible is already longer than I'd actually want. (This limiting factor already removes so many great options, entirely).
2) Weight. Maybe mostly dictated by size (compactness), but I don't want to start with an 11Lb gun, and then start adding to that.
3) Capable. Everything related to the actual performance I suppose. Accurate and Precise (these could be a characteristic of their own - and really at the #1 position). What's the point if the gun can't hit the target (increasing importance if non-PAL/sub 500fps, which is even worse than sub 12fpe limit).
4) Accurate and Precise - I'll repeat it. It's a must. It has to be able to consistently hit a pest's vitals, ie: head/skull (rodent, bird, etc.'s head sized target).
5) Cost. Nice if it isn't $3500 CAD. Or even $1000. But list whatever there is, regardless of price, because the list is short enough already.
6) Accessorizable/(Configurable). I own one airgun and I already don't like dovetail. I'd love picatinny up top for optics, and picatinny underneath for bipods, tripods, handles, etc. If this pest gun is to be used for diurnal or nocturnal pest, it might need NV optics - which as far as I know, all use picatinny.
7) ** Regulated. I can't see wanting anything not regulated...I think this is a must, not a want.
8) .22 cal minimum I think.
9) Non-PAL is probably preferred, but I want to hear ALL the options, PAL and Non-PAL. And worth mentioning; I'm not keen on spending top dollar airgun price on a sub 500 airgun.

There's a chance I already know of all the options. But maybe not. And I'd still like to discuss the topic.

So, I have a PP750L (the updated model), in .22 cal. Right after I paid for it, the Snowpeak Mercury Compact (SMK/Snowpeak/Air Venturi, AP900/Mercury/Alpha) appeared for pre-order sale. I frowned. It appeard to have everything I wanted, and I wouldn't have to put extra money into it to have things like picatinny, but I'd ordered the pp750l already. I debated, and waited. And then a few months later, maybe, the AV Microstrike came out - and in Canada in a Canadian PAL version. But after researching, the undersized barrel in the .22 cal made me pause. I like almost everything about it. But don't wanna risk that potential barrel issue. I duno how AV or a Canadian retailer (only airgunsource probably) would handle any problems or warranty claims, etc.

I have more to say/ask, but I want to keep this initial post shorter. Feel free to ask any questions, too.
Thanks for reading.

 

[Solo1]

Hi and welcome to the club! Right off the top of my head would be a brk pathfinder ora brk atomic xr.
Heres a link to brk

BRK Air Rifle Range | High quality air rifles, carbines and pistols

High quality, lightweight hunting air rifles, carbines and pistols are manufactured using state of the art precision engineering technology.

brocock.co.uk

Hopefully that gives you the info you need

 

[Solo1]

@Luis Leon can give you a good rundown on these 2 guns.

 

[Danman]

Hey everyone. First I should say that I'm in Canada, and that is going to really dictate (restrict) options and availability of everything. Note; I have an R/PAL License.
Also, I'm a newb. Just so you know where I'm coming from. And please correct me where I'm wrong. I want to learn.

I'm not sure where to start. But I'm essentially looking for what the the options for airguns that meet the ideal criteria for a capable pest airgun in Canada. And also, how should one setup said airgun for the specified use, or how you set it up? When I say "pest", I mean basically squirrel sized pests (rodents, birds, similar sized nuisances).

Before I end up writing a novel, and providing too much detail (I'm bad for that), I'll just say what characteristics I think a pest gun like this should have - or maybe better put "what I'd want in one".

Not in particular order:

1) Compact. Mostly overall length. As short as Canadianly possible is already longer than I'd actually want. (This limiting factor already removes so many great options, entirely).
2) Weight. Maybe mostly dictated by size (compactness), but I don't want to start with an 11Lb gun, and then start adding to that.
3) Capable. Everything related to the actual performance I suppose. Accurate and Precise (these could be a characteristic of their own - and really at the #1 position). What's the point if the gun can't hit the target (increasing importance if non-PAL/sub 500fps, which is even worse than sub 12fpe limit).
4) Accurate and Precise - I'll repeat it. It's a must. It has to be able to consistently hit a pest's vitals, ie: head/skull (rodent, bird, etc.'s head sized target).
5) Cost. Nice if it isn't $3500 CAD. Or even $1000. But list whatever there is, regardless of price, because the list is short enough already.
6) Accessorizable/(Configurable). I own one airgun and I already don't like dovetail. I'd love picatinny up top for optics, and picatinny underneath for bipods, tripods, handles, etc. If this pest gun is to be used for diurnal or nocturnal pest, it might need NV optics - which as far as I know, all use picatinny.
7) ** Regulated. I can't see wanting anything not regulated...I think this is a must, not a want.
8) .22 cal minimum I think.
9) Non-PAL is probably preferred, but I want to hear ALL the options, PAL and Non-PAL. And worth mentioning; I'm not keen on spending top dollar airgun price on a sub 500 airgun.

There's a chance I already know of all the options. But maybe not. And I'd still like to discuss the topic.

So, I have a PP750L (the updated model), in .22 cal. Right after I paid for it, the Snowpeak Mercury Compact (SMK/Snowpeak/Air Venturi, AP900/Mercury/Alpha) appeared for pre-order sale. I frowned. It appeard to have everything I wanted, and I wouldn't have to put extra money into it to have things like picatinny, but I'd ordered the pp750l already. I debated, and waited. And then a few months later, maybe, the AV Microstrike came out - and in Canada in a Canadian PAL version. But after researching, the undersized barrel in the .22 cal made me pause. I like almost everything about it. But don't wanna risk that potential barrel issue. I duno how AV or a Canadian retailer (only airgunsource probably) would handle any problems or warranty claims, etc.

I have more to say/ask, but I want to keep this initial post shorter. Feel free to ask any questions, too.
Thanks for reading.

I'm right there with you on not spending big coin on a sub 500fps gun, lol. They exist but....its basically a toy and really don't cost any less
Do yourself a favor and just skip the non pal airguns. You, your ammo trajectory, and the pests your taking out will thank you.
Honestly the Snowpeak M60B (Airgun Archery Fun stocks em) would sit at the top of my list for your needs, power, mod-able, pic rails, lots of shots, etc.
The Ghost plus (kinda hefty though) or a Brk Commander (on Sale rn at AGS for $800 off! and has a folding stock) are also great options.

 

[pan60]

my wife shoots an BRK ATOMIC and loves it!

 

[Billm]

If I was in Canada and needed a PAL airgun for pests, I’d look at the Snowpeak pistols, either PP700 with an add-on stock or the PP750 with its collapsing stock. Both are under $500 and give 450-500fps (PAL legal). They’re both .22.
I killed several pest grey squirrels with a Crossman 1077 .177, but it was barely powerful enough. I loaned it to a visitor from the UK and he killed a bunch of rats with it.
These .22 pistols with a similar velocity should have enough whack for these types of pests with careful pellet selection and keeping your shooting range reasonable. That’ll give you a compact carbine, decent accuracy and cheap enough that you can buy a compressor and sight for under $1000. I’d probably just put a $40 holographic sight on it.

 

[Danman]

If I was in Canada and needed a PAL airgun for pests, I’d look at the Snowpeak pistols, either PP700 with an add-on stock or the PP750 with its collapsing stock. Both are under $500 and give 450-500fps (PAL legal). They’re both .22.
I killed several pest grey squirrels with a Crossman 1077 .177, but it was barely powerful enough. I loaned u to a visitor from the HK and he killed a bunch of rats with it.
These .22 pistols with a similar velocity should have enough whack for these types of pests with careful pellet selection and keeping your shooting range reasonable. That’ll give you a compact carbine, decent accuracy and cheap enough that you can buy a compressor and sight for under $1000. I’d probably just put a $40 holographic sight on it.

I'm not a pistol shooter so it doesn't bother me a ton (but a loss of freedom sure does) but any pistol shooting over 500fps is illegal to buy/sell here, as of a few years ago
I've never seen the Brk Atomics or pathfinders available here either as they are too small and classed as a pistol. Welcome to our restrictions up here

 

[Solo1]

I'm not a pistol shooter so it doesn't bother me a ton (but a loss of freedom sure does) but any pistol shooting over 500fps is illegal to buy/sell here, as of a few years ago
I've never seen the Brk Atomics or pathfinders available here either as they are too small and classed as a pistol. Welcome to our restrictions up here

Dan what about a pathfinder? Or even a sniper with the 17” barrel?

 

[Billm]

I'm not a pistol shooter so it doesn't bother me a ton (but a loss of freedom sure does) but any pistol shooting over 500fps is illegal to buy/sell here, as of a few years ago
I've never seen the Brk Atomics or pathfinders available here either as they are too small and classed as a pistol. Welcome to our restrictions up here

They’re both under 500fps and listed as PAL options on several Canadian sites. New! Snowpeak PP750L Multi-Shot PCP Pistol 495Fps Version .25 caliber

 

[Danman]

Dan what about a pathfinder? Or even a sniper with the 17” barrel?

Yip the snipers are allowed with the 17inch barrel, but not the Pathfinder. Trying to make sense of the rules can be nuts. What govt people come up with to justify their jobs

They’re both under 500fps and listed as PAL options on several Canadian sites. New

True! Sorry I replied to your comment.... it was more of a general statement about our situation i guess. It diminishes our options, but there is still plenty to pick from at least. Give me 700fps with a .177 over a .22 going 495 anyday on rats/squirrel pests though. Once you have your Pal here you can hotrod a non pal gun legally but again I dont think its a great starting point. Ive shot sub 500fps for over 2 decades before getting my PAL... Very limiting on what you can do.

 

[Billm]

Yip the snipers are allowed with the 17inch barrel, but not the Pathfinder. Trying to make sense of the rules can be nuts. What govt people come up with to justify their jobs

True! Sorry I replied to your comment.... it was more of a general statement about our situation i guess. It diminishes our options, but there is still plenty to pick from at least. Give me 700fps with a .177 over a .22 going 495 anyday on rats/squirrel pests though. Once you have your Pal here you can hotrod a non pal gun legally but again I dont think its a great starting point. Ive shot sub 500fps for over 2 decades before getting my PAL... Very limiting on what you can do.

Yeah, the rules seem like they were written by someone with no knowledge of power and ballistics. Unless I’m mistaken it appears that it can be .177/.22/.25 as long as it’s under 500fps. I’m pretty sure a .25 at 499fps does a lot more damage than a .177 at 499fps LOL. @Danman everything I’ve learned about Canadian airgun law, I learned from you and so I’ll defer to you on that. I don’t think my Crossman Co2 .177 was doing any better than 500fps and it was taking 3-4 pellets to kill a Florida tree rat. I broke out my Diana 48 and .177 using wadcutter ps at 800-1000fps and it was one shot, instant karma.

 

[FL22]

kill a Florida tree rat

Since getting my Sniper .22 dialed in with 18.13 JSBs, let’s just say that the results have been stellar.

 

[Danman]

Yeah, the rules seem like they were written by someone with no knowledge of power and ballistics. Unless I’m mistaken it appears that it can be .177/.22/.25 as long as it’s under 500fps. I’m pretty sure a .25 at 499fps does a lot more damage than a .177 at 499fps LOL. @Danman everything I’ve learned about Canadian airgun law, I learned from you and so I’ll defer to you on that. I don’t think my Crossman Co2 .177 was doing any better than 500fps and it was taking 3-4 pellets to kill a Florida tree rat. I broke out my Diana 48 and .177 using wadcutter ps at 800-1000fps and it was one shot, instant karma.

That is correct.
Canada uses the >500fps rule with no PAL to the letter. You can buy a .25 Daystate pcp here that maxes out at 495fps and it will still cost the same much as the full power edition. Craziness. Limiting FPE does makes way more sense....
I have taken 2 rabbits, 1 rat, & lots of sparrows/cow birds/starlings with my .177 sub 500 but just not enough power for squirrel, and i doubt i ever connected beyond 30Yards

 

[sipl]

Many good points brought up. Some of which I've spent extensive time looking into and consider previously, as well. Thanks all for offering helpful suggestions and info.

Hi and welcome to the club! Right off the top of my head would be a brk pathfinder ora brk atomic xr.
Heres a link to brk

BRK Air Rifle Range | High quality air rifles, carbines and pistols

High quality, lightweight hunting air rifles, carbines and pistols are manufactured using state of the art precision engineering technology.

brocock.co.uk

Hopefully that gives you the info you need

Both Illegal in Canada. "Too short" for the Monarchy.

'm right there with you on not spending big coin on a sub 500fps gun, lol. They exist but....its basically a toy and really don't cost any less
Do yourself a favor and just skip the non pal airguns. You, your ammo trajectory, and the pests your taking out will thank you.
Honestly the Snowpeak M60B (Airgun Archery Fun stocks em) would sit at the top of my list for your needs, power, mod-able, pic rails, lots of shots, etc.
The Ghost plus (kinda hefty though) or a Brk Commander (on Sale rn at AGS for $800 off! and has a folding stock) are also great options.

I agree on the sub 500 toy stuff.

M60B (like a Zelos, right.) I was aware of, and the new "MAX 1" (?). Kinda heavy, and long. About 7-8 Lbs naked, and 36"+ long.
Love the sound of the Ghost, but super pricey, and the shorter model I'd want is too short for the Monarchy, If I recall correctly.
BRK Commander is 37" long. Love the BRK stuff though. The Ghost Plus - why did I think this was longer than it was. It's 28.8" long? That's good. 7 Lbs bit heavy. $3000 cad, nearly Leshiy 2 money. And I've only ever seen the .177 at AGS.

If I was in Canada and needed a PAL airgun for pests, I’d look at the Snowpeak pistols, either PP700 with an add-on stock or the PP750 with its collapsing stock. Both are under $500 and give 450-500fps (PAL legal). They’re both .22.

I have a PP750L, in .22 cal. I'll list what I have below or in the next post.

Give me 700fps with a .177 over a .22 going 495 anyday on rats/squirrel pests though.

Now this is interesting. And makes me think of the UK folks who are also limited (in different ways) and the ratters seem to choose .177, particularly for ratting. I figure it's a speed to weight choice to arrive at under 12fpe (as well as trajectory). But they aren't speed, or weight limited - it's the end ft-lbs energy that's limiting, therefore there's slightly more freedom to arrive at something useful. Anyways, what is your reasoning for this? I'm curious. Speed (for fast, twitchy, little pests)?

Once you have your Pal here you can hotrod a non pal gun legally but again I dont think its a great starting point. Ive shot sub 500fps for over 2 decades before getting my PAL... Very limiting on what you can do.

That's interesting. Can you elaborate a bit? I assume you mean, and this excludes "pistols", that one can buy/own a non PAL gun (sub 500fps) and hotrod it to over 500fps, legally, as long as you have a PAL?
And you've shot sub 500fps for 2+ decades!? Man, you must have a wealth of knowledge for that specific topic or application. I'd be interested in your experience with that. Was it target, or pest/small game, or what?

Yeah, the rules seem like they were written by someone with no knowledge of power and ballistics.

It's a method of erosion of education/knowledge, interest, and availability that is also targeted at the roots - the youth, particularly. A campaign of nonsense. They're not stupid, they're clever and devious.

Unless I’m mistaken it appears that it can be .177/.22/.25 as long as it’s under 500fps. I’m pretty sure a .25 at 499fps does a lot more damage than a .177 at 499fps LOL.

Yes, exactly. And this is precisely what I've spent a good amount of time pondering, figuring, and thinking about in my research and choices.

Craziness. Limiting FPE does makes way more sense....

It does, I think. They're not trying to make sense though. Haha.

 

[Billm]

Many good points brought up. Some of which I've spent extensive time looking into and consider previously, as well. Thanks all for offering helpful suggestions and info.



Both Illegal in Canada. "Too short" for the Monarchy.



I agree on the sub 500 toy stuff.

M60B (like a Zelos, right.) I was aware of, and the new "MAX 1" (?). Kinda heavy, and long. About 7-8 Lbs naked, and 36"+ long.
Love the sound of the Ghost, but super pricey, and the shorter model I'd want is too short for the Monarchy, If I recall correctly.
BRK Commander is 37" long. Love the BRK stuff though. The Ghost Plus - why did I think this was longer than it was. It's 28.8" long? That's good. 7 Lbs bit heavy. $3000 cad, nearly Leshiy 2 money. And I've only ever seen the .177 at AGS.



I have a PP750L, in .22 cal. I'll list what I have below or in the next post.



Now this is interesting. And makes me think of the UK folks who are also limited (in different ways) and the ratters seem to choose .177, particularly for ratting. I figure it's a speed to weight choice to arrive at under 12fpe (as well as trajectory). But they aren't speed, or weight limited - it's the end ft-lbs energy that's limiting, therefore there's slightly more freedom to arrive at something useful. Anyways, what is your reasoning for this? I'm curious. Speed (for fast, twitchy, little pests)?



That's interesting. Can you elaborate a bit? I assume you mean, and this excludes "pistols", that one can buy/own a non PAL gun (sub 500fps) and hotrod it to over 500fps, legally, as long as you have a PAL?
And you've shot sub 500fps for 2+ decades!? Man, you must have a wealth of knowledge for that specific topic or application. I'd be interested in your experience with that. Was it target, or pest/small game, or what?



It's a method of erosion of education/knowledge, interest, and availability that is also targeted at the roots - the youth, particularly. A campaign of nonsense. They're not stupid, they're clever and devious.



Yes, exactly. And this is precisely what I've spent a good amount of time pondering, figuring, and thinking about in my research and choices.



It does, I think. They're not trying to make sense though. Haha.

I started my airgun shooting in the UK and shot a lot there as a teenager. Originally, Ididn't know much about the sub-12 rules, until the Airgun World magazine came out in 77. I'm not sure what my Diana 35 rifle was at power wise, but I assume it was sub 12. It was bought by my dad at the base gun club in Wiesbaden Germany. It's Diana branded and so I would think it was not intended for the U.S. or UK market as they were usually branded RWS or Original respectively. The choice of .177 for most people in the UK is probably more to do with the cost of pellets and competition shooting. Most UK backyards don't allow much more than 25 yards range. There's an abundance of.177 wadcutters and not many for .22. The wadcutter imparts more energy on impact compared to a domed pellet, but they are limited in range because of the flat head. Contrary to what I see some people posting, the wadcutter isn't used because of its accuracy, it's because it cuts a clean hole for scoring, while still being accurate at short range. My .25s are all doing 850-1000fps and so I'm not sure what their accuracy would be at sub 500fps.

 

[Solo1]

I started my airgun shooting in the UK and shot a lot there as a teenager. Originally, Ididn't know much about the sub-12 rules, until the Airgun World magazine came out in 77. I'm not sure what my Diana 35 rifle was at power wise, but I assume it was sub 12. It was bought by my dad at the base gun club in Wiesbaden Germany. It's Diana branded and so I would think it was not intended for the U.S. or UK market as they were usually branded RWS or Original respectively. The choice of .177 for most people in the UK is probably more to do with the cost of pellets and competition shooting. Most UK backyards don't allow much more than 25 yards range. There's an abundance of.177 wadcutters and not many for .22. The wadcutter imparts more energy on impact compared to a domed pellet, but they are limited in range because of the flat head. Contrary to what I see some people posting, the wadcutter isn't used because of its accuracy, it's because it cuts a clean hole for scoring, while still being accurate at short range. My .25s are all doing 850-1000fps and so I'm not sure what their accuracy would be at sub 500fps.

A 25 at that velocity would only cover a very short range of accuracy due to the loopy trajectory.

 

[Solo1]

I did this on strelok 20 gr 25 cal pellet with a 10 yd 0. A20 yd 0 gave it 4 yds on crosshair but lots of up before and drop after like here this is @500 fps

 

[Solo1]

Id also add if the brk pathfinder is too short and a ghost too heavy how about a daystate revere or brk sniper xr? Either in 177 or 22 are excellent guns very accurate and easily maintained. A bit pricey but worth it in my opinion

 

[Danman]

That's interesting. Can you elaborate a bit? I assume you mean, and this excludes "pistols", that one can buy/own a non PAL gun (sub 500fps) and hotrod it to over 500fps, legally, as long as you have a PAL?
And you've shot sub 500fps for 2+ decades!? Man, you must have a wealth of knowledge for that specific topic or application. I'd be interested in your experience with that. Was it target, or pest/small game, or what?

You got me there, no you can't mod an air pistol to shoot over 495fps legally here even with a PAL, I was referring to air rifles sorry.

I hopped up my 495fps Slavia 630 and after quite a bit of research, a new spring, some work on that spring, redoing it all after the trigger jammed as spring was too long....all I gained...lol.... was 50fps. Just buy something closer to the power you want to start out with, in the end you wont save any money.

Why I would choose the .177 going 700 vs a .22 going 500 is the better trajectory, and rats/small birds really don't require a .22.
How far are your intended targets usually? Is it indoors or outside mainly?