A couple Questions

[Franklink]

@Hylander, if you're convinced that it's not for you, then dont buy one.

You can spend much more and get much less in this hobby than the value represented by an Airforce gun.

 

[Franklink]

Here are some vids showing accuracy from an unregulated
Condor from a few months ago.

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There's a couple more prairie dog pesting videos on my channel from the previous summer. Different Condor in a different caliber, but same result: lots of dead prairie dogs.

 

[Danman]

I think that right there is what bugs me.
I don't want to have to live within a sweet spot.
I want to fill and go, knowing my first shot with a full tank is going to hit poa same as my 30th shot.

I would ask if you would be pesting/hunting with the gun or shooting bench/plinking mostly? Ive ran my regulated S510 off-reg more than once accidentally when the pests were thick (starlings) and no drop inside 40Y was noted for the first couple shots. Running unregulated, as mentioned can be just as accurate (and eliminates some parts that can fail or cause inconsistency) BUT you need to be mindful of current bottle pressure, in addition to ammo weight, target distance, wind, etc so there is some more mental math for the shooter, and therefore a greater margin of error.
Something else to consider: i dont own any air tanks, just a hand pump and compressor, never needed one....if i owned an AF pcp i would probably break down and get one ( more ka-ching$$) to avoid filling up every 10 or 20 shots while benching shooting.

 

[SpindleB]

I shoot competively, field target mostly. My most winning gun is unregulated.

Cut the ends of the curve off (by figuring out fill and refill pressures) and you're at no disadvantage with an unregulated gun versus regulated.

How many rounds do you fire FT per match? Critical point is monitoring that pressure curve. A Quality Huma Air or Huben Power regulator provides MANY more shots at your optimal pressure.

 

[Solo1]

How many rounds do you fire FT per match? Critical point is monitoring that pressure curve. A Quality Huma Air or Huben Power regulator provides MANY more shots at your optimal pressure.

Depends 40 or 60 plus sight in

 

[Franklink]

How many rounds do you fire FT per match? Critical point is monitoring that pressure curve. A Quality Huma Air or Huben Power regulator provides MANY more shots at your optimal pressure.

Most matches are between 40 and 60 shots.

I'm not anti-regulator. I own a bunch of regulated guns. I'm just pointing out the fallacy that we hear so often of the unregulated gun being less accurate.

Running an unregulated gun is the same as running a regulated one. You've got to know fill and refill pressures for both. For either regged or unregged, shooting outside of that window can either harm the gun (exceeding the max working pressure) and/or simply make you miss. If you shoot below the reg pressure with a regged gun, you're in the same situation as shooting below your refill point with an unregged gun.

Do regged guns usually more shots per fill? Certainly. Do unregged guns usually operate at a lower pressure and make the acquisition and maintenance of an air source much easier? Certainly.

 

[SpindleB]

Most matches are between 40 and 60 shots.

I'm not anti-regulator. I own a bunch of regulated guns. I'm just pointing out the fallacy that we hear so often of the unregulated gun being less accurate.

Running an unregulated gun is the same as running a regulated one. You've got to know fill and refill pressures for both. For either regged or unregged, shooting outside of that window can either harm the gun (exceeding the max working pressure) and/or simply make you miss. If you shoot below the reg pressure with a regged gun, you're in the same situation as shooting below your refill point with an unregged gun.

Do regged guns usually more shots per fill? Certainly. Do unregged guns usually operate at a lower pressure and make the acquisition and maintenance of an air source much easier? Certainly.

Im not arguing about what happens when you drop off reg pressure.

My point is the number of shots at the desired pressure. Unregulated your upper bounds are limited. Regulated you are limited to maximum bottle pressure.

The window to shoot the unregulated gun at optimal pressure is much narrower than regulated.

I can get over 300 shots with my AirForce Condor at 1800Psi. Each and everyone at 1800Psi.

 

[Franklink]

Im not arguing about what happens when you drop off reg pressure.

My point is the number of shots at the desired pressure. Unregulated your upper bounds are limited. Regulated you are limited to maximum bottle pressure.

The window to shoot the unregulated gun at optimal pressure is much narrower than regulated.

I can get over 300 shots with my AirForce Condor at 1800Psi. Each and everyone at 1800Psi.

Yes.

 

[Grunt64]

I am new to pcp and have a couple questions about AF guns.
From the review videos I have seen so far, they don't seem that accurate. Lots of flyers.
They supposedly have LW barrels, so I'm guessing this lack of good accuracy is the lack of a regulator.
If so, why do they not have a regulator?
And can a reg be added?

AirForce rifles are accurate — they use LW barrels and the platform is solid. The flyers you see in some videos usually come from shooting the gun across the whole fill instead of staying in its sweet spot. Since they’re unregulated, the valve behaves differently at 3000 psi than it does at 2400, and that pressure swing shows up on target. When you shoot them in the right pressure band, they group very well.

A regulator can be added, but it’s not automatically the fix. On a Talon it works fine, but on a Condor it usually costs a noticeable amount of power because the high‑flow valve is designed for higher pressures. AirForce guns are meant to be tuned mechanically — hammer, top hat, power wheel, and fill pressure. Set up correctly, they shoot tight without needing a reg.

 

[SpindleB]

AirForce rifles are accurate — they use LW barrels and the platform is solid. The flyers you see in some videos usually come from shooting the gun across the whole fill instead of staying in its sweet spot. Since they’re unregulated, the valve behaves differently at 3000 psi than it does at 2400, and that pressure swing shows up on target. When you shoot them in the right pressure band, they group very well.

A regulator can be added, but it’s not automatically the fix. On a Talon it works fine, but on a Condor it usually costs a noticeable amount of power because the high‑flow valve is designed for higher pressures. AirForce guns are meant to be tuned mechanically — hammer, top hat, power wheel, and fill pressure. Set up correctly, they shoot tight without needing a reg.

The length of the barrel on the Condor is the issue with regulating. Lack of plenum reduces the available air and power drops.

The 12" barrel on TalonSS and 18" on Talon are not as affected. The 18" shows some effect especially the .25.

Using a regulator with a plenum like the Huben Power Max-ATH or Max-Tophat solves that with a built in 50cc plenum. Which is close to optimal for a .25 and larger than optimal for a .22.
24" .25 barrel is almost 20cc volume
Optimal is 60-80cc plenum

I can run my Condor at ~1700psi and shoot 33.95gr pellets at 850FPS using a Max-ATH, high flow valve, heavy spring and 95g hammer.

And that is the beauty of simplicity. So easy to modify the platform and get whatever results you want. Crank up the pressure to 2500psi and you are pushing 90FPE.

I just leave the Power wheel at 2.

 

[Danman]

can run my Condor at ~1700psi and shoot 33.95gr pellets at 850FPS using a Max-ATH, high flow valve, heavy spring and 95g hammer.

OK now my gears are turning ...What barrel length is your condor? And have you swapped between an 18" and a 24" without touching anything else to verify your plenum to barrel volume ratio & the speeds you are getting? Not doubting, just curious! Im mostly curious if the 'new' Slug edition Condor would work well with that 50cc plenum and the 24" barrel

 

[SpindleB]

OK now my gears are turning ...What barrel length is your condor? And have you swapped between an 18" and a 24" without touching anything else to verify your plenum to barrel volume ratio & the speeds you are getting? Not doubting, just curious! Im mostly curious if the 'new' Slug edition Condor would work well with that 50cc plenum and the 24" barrel

Yes, on the .22 I have 12 and 18.
On the .25 I *had* 18 and 24.

20cc, 50cc, 60cc, 120cc and 240cc plenums.
Don't remember all the numbers exactly but there was virtually no FPS increase from 60cc to 120cc on the .25 24". The 240 was no different than 120.
20cc to 50cc was around 40fps on the 24"
It was 20fps on the 18" .25.

I think i was running 2000psi reg settings.

The .22 12" was pretty much good at 20cc and the 18" improved with 50cc.

The math came out at 3-4x plenum to barrel. Once the pressure drops the pellets stops accelerating. So the objective is keep the pellet accelerating for the length of the barrel.

Supposedly there are negatives to too much plenum.

Hysteresis between the regulator off pressure and on pressure could cause a drop in plenum pressure.

Too much air causing turbulence at the barrel exit causing shift in POI.

I honestly never saw either. My guess on the POI is that the moderator acts as an air stripper.

Sad thing, I had a whole spreadsheet with all of the results on a USB and I formatted the wrong USB and didn't notice until I grabbed the USB i thought i filled with new music for the car and it was still the same music. The USB with my PCP stuff now had 1,000 or so Motown and Stax mp3.

 

[Hylander]

Well, I should state what I would like to achieve with the rifle.
I would like the Condor SS, so 18" barrel.
I want to shoot 18gr pellets @ about 950fps and 23gr Slugs @ about 925fps.
I want 30 shots per fill all going into .75" groups at the same POA and POI.
Can this be achieved?

 

[SpindleB]

Well, I should state what I would like to achieve with the rifle.
I would like the Condor SS, so 18" barrel.
I want to shoot 18gr pellets @ about 950fps and 23gr Slugs @ about 925fps.
I want 30 shots per fill all going into .75" groups at the same POA and POI.
Can this be achieved?

I'll assume .22 (18gr).
I just put H&N Baracuda 18 in my 18" .22 Talon:
965fps at 2500psi.
Gun has a heavy hammer 85g, heavy spring, high flow valve and a BAP unit (Big Azz Plenum). 120cc plenum tube, regulator, u adapter and BAB (1.1L). Power Wheel at 5.

Stock can probably get there. Shot count might be mediocre.

Not going to check it for grouping, rain and gusty out today.

But with 21.14gr Baracuda Match I can get quarter size or tighter groups at 45 yards, on my good days. My bad days a barn might be safe.

I haven't tried slugs because the LW AirForce barrels are choked.

 

[Grunt64]

The length of the barrel on the Condor is the issue with regulating. Lack of plenum reduces the available air and power drops.

The 12" barrel on TalonSS and 18" on Talon are not as affected. The 18" shows some effect especially the .25.

Using a regulator with a plenum like the Huben Power Max-ATH or Max-Tophat solves that with a built in 50cc plenum. Which is close to optimal for a .25 and larger than optimal for a .22.
24" .25 barrel is almost 20cc volume
Optimal is 60-80cc plenum

I can run my Condor at ~1700psi and shoot 33.95gr pellets at 850FPS using a Max-ATH, high flow valve, heavy spring and 95g hammer.

And that is the beauty of simplicity. So easy to modify the platform and get whatever results you want. Crank up the pressure to 2500psi and you are pushing 90FPE.

I just leave the Power wheel at 2.

​

What you’re describing is exactly why I said a regulator can work on an AirForce platform — as long as you add the plenum volume the system needs. Without that added volume, the Condor’s long barrel and high‑flow valve simply outrun what a small inline reg can supply.

A 24" .25 barrel has roughly 20cc of internal volume, so if the reg only has a tiny built‑in plenum, the gun is starved and power drops. That’s why the Talon/TalonSS don’t show the same issue: shorter barrels, lower flow, and lower demand per shot.

Once you add a real plenum — like the Max‑ATH or Max‑Tophat with ~50cc — the system behaves differently. Now the reg has enough stored air to feed the valve, and you can tune around it with hammer weight, spring, and fill pressure. Your numbers at 1700 psi with 33.95gr pellets are right in line with what a properly‑plenumed reg setup should produce.

But that’s also the key point:You didn’t just “add a regulator.” You rebuilt the entire air delivery system to support one.

Most new PCP shooters don’t realize that:

• A Condor valve is designed to run on high pressure and high flow
• A small plenum reg chokes that system
• Fixing it requires a large plenum, heavier hammer, stronger spring, and a full retune

So yes — a regulated Condor can shoot great.But it’s not a drop‑in upgrade, and it’s not automatically better than tuning the rifle mechanically. AirForce designed these guns to be tuned with hammer, top hat, power wheel, and fill pressure, and that approach still works extremely well for most shooters.

Your setup is a good example of what’s possible when someone knows the platform and builds the reg system correctly.

 

[SpindleB]

​

What you’re describing is exactly why I said a regulator can work on an AirForce platform — as long as you add the plenum volume the system needs. Without that added volume, the Condor’s long barrel and high‑flow valve simply outrun what a small inline reg can supply.

A 24" .25 barrel has roughly 20cc of internal volume, so if the reg only has a tiny built‑in plenum, the gun is starved and power drops. That’s why the Talon/TalonSS don’t show the same issue: shorter barrels, lower flow, and lower demand per shot.

Once you add a real plenum — like the Max‑ATH or Max‑Tophat with ~50cc — the system behaves differently. Now the reg has enough stored air to feed the valve, and you can tune around it with hammer weight, spring, and fill pressure. Your numbers at 1700 psi with 33.95gr pellets are right in line with what a properly‑plenumed reg setup should produce.

But that’s also the key point:You didn’t just “add a regulator.” You rebuilt the entire air delivery system to support one.

Most new PCP shooters don’t realize that:

• A Condor valve is designed to run on high pressure and high flow
• A small plenum reg chokes that system
• Fixing it requires a large plenum, heavier hammer, stronger spring, and a full retune

So yes — a regulated Condor can shoot great.But it’s not a drop‑in upgrade, and it’s not automatically better than tuning the rifle mechanically. AirForce designed these guns to be tuned with hammer, top hat, power wheel, and fill pressure, and that approach still works extremely well for most shooters.

Your setup is a good example of what’s possible when someone knows the platform and builds the reg system correctly.

All started because Huben Power came out with a 30cm tube and regulated U adapter. I tried to buy one but they were always out of stock. So I decided to see if I could build my own. I already had Dream Valves (20cc plenum) and Max-ATH (50cc plenum). So I knew the plenum basics. Shan Bao on AliExpress sells 20cm (120cc) and 40cm (240cc) 3000psi tubes. M28x1 threads, which is the regulator 1/2 of most Huben regulators. The tube also comes with m18-1.5 adapters. I have some M18 extension that are about 10cc internal volume.

I spent about 45 days collecting parts to test plenums. Built up several different types. Initial efforts eliminated a lot of paths. Then spent a good chunk of time testing the various combinations of plenum size, barrel length and caliber. I used AirForce rifles because the number of variables were so few in comparison to poppet valve guns.

Bottom line was that 3x-4x plenum volume to barrel volume ratio.

Tried poppet valve guns but as I suspected too many variables that can affect flow and volume from the bottle to the barrel. Little things like the Umarex Gauntlet inlet port from the regulator being about 1mm. Adding a plenum there did nothing.

But poppet dwell, turns in the air channels, port sizes and several other variables all vary too much between guns to really identify anything approaching the AirForce results. Poppet guns are just a more complex process than AirForce.

If I had a reliable way to measure air volume per shot in a poppet gun i could probably work out optimal value of plenum for each type rifle.

 

[Zelos1]

AirForce is a little behind the 8 ball in this modern pcp world, thats all. No regulator, no magazines, utilitarian triggers and stocks, lame auto safety that breaks, etc. A lack of Accuracy isnt really one of the known problems though. One big "issue" with the Condor guns is the MASSIVE power they make. That inherently makes them shoot inaccurately as people are often sending light pellets waaaay too fast. Outta the box, with power wheel on minimum and a full tank of air the standard 24" Condor (the one i want!) will send most light-medium weight pellets supersonic. The gun or barrel itself isn't the problem usually.
Another issue is it's a bit more difficult to get comfortable behind one, lack of a proper stock, high rings often req, frame can flex, etc
I own 3 high-end British airguns (2 being regulated pcps), have a German springer on the way and yet I BADLY want a .25 Condor shooting slugs to round out the herd someday.
For the money, they are the most powerful pcps you can buy, with tons of mods avaliable.
My biggest AF airgun complaint? They need an MOA SLANTED PIC RAIL!!! Again though....that doesn't make them inaccurate, it just runs you out of elevation, and isnt great for the scope. It is 2025 after all....

They are still only about half the cost of some other brands that offer different features.
I personally would be ok customizing a $1000.00 gun to get where i want to be than to customize a $2000.00 gun to get to almost where i want to be, (hunting). Let’s be honest, these are all wonderful, exciting money pits!