Benchrest Slug shooters being left out?

[hameditor]

The pellets inferior ballistics are exactly why many shooters got into air rifles in the first place. Low-ish powered projectiles that shed the energy they do have quickly = safer backyard shooting.

Internet airgun forums really skew the perception of the airgunning community as a whole. A newbie browsing them for the first time could easily get the impression that nearly everyone is shooting high powered rifles, usually with slugs.

In reality the "averge Joe airgunner" is probably shooting a 12-35 fpe gun with pellets, and doing so precisely because they can't or shouldn't be shooting a rimfire (or high powered airgun with super high bc slugs) in the backyard.

Might be that eventually, the pool of shooters competing with the new ultra high bc slugs (and rifles that shoot them well) is populated more by those coming from the rimfire competition world than from the longer tenured airgun competitions like field target.

@wolfmangreg I agree with your points about Internet airgun fora and the "average Joe Airgunner".

To everyone - this is an outstanding discussion - thank you!!!

 

[Pumacarl]

The pellets inferior ballistics are exactly why many shooters got into air rifles in the first place. Low-ish powered projectiles that shed the energy they do have quickly = safer backyard shooting.

Internet airgun forums really skew the perception of the airgunning community as a whole. A newbie browsing them for the first time could easily get the impression that nearly everyone is shooting high powered rifles, usually with slugs.

In reality the "averge Joe airgunner" is probably shooting a 12-35 fpe gun with pellets, and doing so precisely because they can't or shouldn't be shooting a rimfire (or high powered airgun with super high bc slugs) in the backyard.

Might be that eventually, the pool of shooters competing with the new ultra high bc slugs (and rifles that shoot them well) is populated more by those coming from the rimfire competition world than from the longer tenured airgun competitions like field target.

Greg, we've all come to the same conclusion before that everyone who actively contribute to these forums are not Joe Average airgunners. We are just a super minority of sorts. The new members showing up, if young, always show up looking for power, even when there was little to be had. That's never going to change. What has changed is that we all have more options now, and we need to use our collected knowledge not to obfuscate progress but to figure out where we can use it to our benefit. And when we shouldn't.

 

[Airgunsruinedmylife]

In my opinion, the serious air gunners who have been at these shoots for years have naturally progressed to using more slugs. More so than rimfire guys getting into airgun competitions.

 

[Franklink]

The pellets inferior ballistics are exactly why many shooters got into air rifles in the first place. Low-ish powered projectiles that shed the energy they do have quickly = safer backyard shooting.

Internet airgun forums really skew the perception of the airgunning community as a whole. A newbie browsing them for the first time could easily get the impression that nearly everyone is shooting high powered rifles, usually with slugs.

In reality the "averge Joe airgunner" is probably shooting a 12-35 fpe gun with pellets, and doing so precisely because they can't or shouldn't be shooting a rimfire (or high powered airgun with super high bc slugs) in the backyard.

Might be that eventually, the pool of shooters competing with the new ultra high bc slugs (and rifles that shoot them well) is populated more by those coming from the rimfire competition world than from the longer tenured airgun competitions like field target.

Low power is the beauty of airguns, in my opinion. Doing more with less will always trip my trigger.

 

[Franklink]

In my opinion, the serious air gunners who have been at these shoots for years have naturally progressed to using more slugs. More so than rimfire guys getting into airgun competitions.

Im at adult airguns since 2009. Competitive airgunning since 2017. I consider myself rather serious.

I'd sell everything above 35fpe if I really had to downsize. And I'd sell everything above 20 fpe if I had to further reduce my toys.

In fact, I'd estimate 70% of all the shots I take in a given years is around 19fpe. Another 12.5% at least than 10fpe, another 12.5% at 30-35fpe, and the last 5% at 50+ fpe.

 

[Franklink]

I don’t think they have a choice, but to add slug classes. Every content creator I watch primarily uses them and they are rapidly growing in popularity with average Joe shooters. All the long range hunters are using them now. It’s really hard to want to shoot a pellet nowadays unless it’s field target.

The content creators are just that, pushing an agenda.

 

[Airgunsruinedmylife]

Im at adult airguns since 2009. Competitive airgunning since 2017. I consider myself rather serious.

I'd sell everything above 35fpe if I really had to downsize. And I'd sell everything above 20 fpe if I had to further reduce my toys.

In fact, I'd estimate 70% of all the shots I take in a given years is around 19fpe. Another 12.5% at least than 10fpe, another 10% at 30-35fpe, and the last 5% at 50+ fpe.

I’m big into low power as well l. I have a Thomas for WFTF and a couple Pre Air Force RAWs for HFT. For the high powered serious benchrest, slugs are superior and need to be incorporated into competition as such due to their massively growing popularity.

 

[wolfmangreg]

...we need to use our collected knowledge not to obfuscate progress but to figure out where we can use it to our benefit. And when we shouldn't.

Absolutely a good & fair statement, one that I've no reason to argue against. Wouldn't discourage anyone from getting into the high power & slugs game.
But I will point out that progress can mean many things- not just further, faster, & more power.
For me, it meant being able to shoot at my own property, as much as my free time will allow. No need to pack up & drive. No calling the property owner to ask if it's ok. No showing up to a public range & paying for access, finding it closed, or potentially sharing it with a group of dangerous morons (been there, done that).

Have no beef whatsoever with those that push the envelope of further, faster, & more power. I mean that- it's your money, time & effort; expend it however you darn well please & don't let anyone tell you it's wrong.

That said, there is often a subtle undertone to these types of discussions implying that those choosing to stay in the modest power & pellets game are by default less invested & serious about their airgunning skills than those in the higher power & slugs camp. I do think that, by & large, it's unintended, but it's there nonetheless.

Way too thick skinned to be upset by it, but I do like to point out that it's completely inaccurate.

 

[Airgunsruinedmylife]

I bet if they had just as many slug classes as pellet classes it wouldn’t be long until there would be a fall off in pellet strict competition.

 

[Franklink]

Absolutely a good & fair statement, one that I've no reason to argue against. Wouldn't discourage anyone from getting into the high power & slugs game.
But I will point out that progress can mean many things- not just farther, faster, & more power.
For me, it meant being able to shoot at my own property, as much as my free time will allow. No need to pack up & drive. No calling the property owner to ask if it's ok. No showing up to a public range & paying for access, finding it closed, or potentially sharing it with a group of dangerous morons (been there, done that).

Same here. Convenient trigger time.

 

[Solo1]

I don’t think we in the us should just blame content creators. In the us as a whole we’re a lot like texas every thing needs to be BIGGER 600 hp cars when we’re running out of gas sky scrapers etcetc. But a slide from my point me personally with airguns i love when i can go long with slugs and i love stooting ft with pellets i see no reason we can’t keep 100 yd pellet matches and 100-200 yd slug matches. I like my ghost 177 and 22 slug barrels 31 and 71 fpe their both fun and accurate and im shooting eft this comming weekend with 25 cal pellets

 

[Pumacarl]

Absolutely a good & fair statement, one that I've no reason to argue against. Wouldn't discourage anyone from getting into the high power & slugs game.
But I will point out that progress can mean many things- not just farther, faster, & more power.
For me, it meant being able to shoot at my own property, as much as my free time will allow. No need to pack up & drive. No calling the property owner to ask if it's ok. No showing up to a public range & paying for access, finding it closed, or potentially sharing it with a group of dangerous morons (been there, done that).

Absolutely! That's why I mentioned to Luis about my low powered slug shooter. I also have a low powered 50fpe .25 that shoots slugs. I play the benefits of the projectile, whichever, to the gun. I still have 5 dedicated pellet guns. Different guns/projectiles for different jobs, with clear and obvious benefits for both. That's the game I'm playing at, that, and making them look cool. lol

 

[Solo1]

@Franklink if you run out of your 20 gr 20 cal slugs give the brk 177 and jsb 13 ko slugs a try or the 22 slug barrel and 33 or 40 air marksman a try !

 

[Luis Leon]

I see your point, and I see past it too. For example, I have a 21fpe .177, that is for pesting where I don't want a lot of power or pass throughs. Franklink is right that slugs are a huge pain in the ass, but that ends once you find one and then they are not. I'm shooting further, flatter, with less wind drift, and here is the biggie - with less pass through, using a 10gr slug that just about explodes on impact. It's still at a low power 21 fpe, quiet goodness, just doing everything better. There use to be a TV commercial where the model said "don't hate me because I'm beautiful," well I would say the same to you about slugs. LOL

No hate, I accept that in competition, long range hunting or pesting that slugs may be superior. I don’t compete and my long range kills are typically 100ish yards. But in reality the bulk of my kills are sub 70 yards, for this individual, pellets get it done. And though I can safely send pellets out to 102 plus yards on my property. I would be hesitant to send slugs. I plink a lot and know for sure that I wouldn’t be plinking with slugs… Simply more expensive…

 

[GHairgunner]

Love this discussion.
First slugs are just easier to shoot accurately once you find the right slugs and and gun to shoot them. Better BC's make for less vertical dispersion and BC's covers for the lack of being able to read the wind by having less horizontal dispersion.

Shooting a slug gun is not quiet, not much difference from a 22lr. So a moderator is a must. I have now shot in 100+ yard comps and yes you do score higher due to the fact its the equipment reduces the error caused by the environment. Shooting at 200yard with 22 slug gun with spotter and both of you turn and look at each and say, I heard it hit paper I just can't see it.

For you guys that don't live in the city or have 200 yard to practice at what is the point? 200 yards in the city is shooting a squire off the top of the house 2 blocks away (average US city block 88 yards).

So now in competition I have hits on steel at 300 yards. Was it fun....... YES, Did it prove anything...... NO not really if you do the calculation right the gun and slugs do it for you. Yes I had misses at 300 so if anything it proves how dangerous slugs can be if not used properly.

 

[Luis Leon]

I don’t think we in the us should just blame content creators. In the us as a whole we’re a lot like texas every thing needs to be BIGGER 600 hp cars when we’re running out of gas sky scrapers etcetc. But a slide from my point me personally with airguns i love when i can go long with slugs and i love stooting ft with pellets i see no reason we can’t keep 100 yd pellet matches and 100-200 yd slug matches. I like my ghost 177 and 22 slug barrels 31 and 71 fpe their both fun and accurate and im shooting eft this comming weekend with 25 cal pellets

USA in CAPS please. All arguments aside? Slugs are here to stay… There is no right or wrong in the matter, simply an issue of choice depending on the situation. Slugs are simply another option for airgunners that may choose to use them. This has been a very informative and congenial thread… Kudos to all…

 

[GHairgunner]

I bet if they had just as many slug classes as pellet classes it wouldn’t be long until there would be a fall off in pellet strict competition.

How about this, to keep some of the art of shooting accurately in the game limit slug comps to just .177 and maybe even the weight of the slug. Now take away the generous .35 diameter scoring plug. How do you feel about that?

This would also help people that want to shoot slugs to not have to buy another gun capable of shooting the slugs, even though they would anyway.

 

[Franklink]

Absolutely! That's why I mentioned to Luis about my low powered slug shooter. I also have a low powered 50fpe .25 that shoots slugs. I play the benefits of the projectile, whichever, to the gun. I still have 5 dedicated pellet guns. Different guns/projectiles for different jobs, with clear and obvious benefits for both. That's the game I'm playing at, that, and making them look cool. lol

I got a chuckle out of "low powered 50fpe .25."

It's all relative and each of us has a different idea of high power or low power. "Low power" to me is my 6 fpe FWB 300s.

 

[Pumacarl]

I bet if they had just as many slug classes as pellet classes it wouldn’t be long until there would be a fall off in pellet strict competition.

Now, here is where I believe, you would be wrong. We all here on this thread are a tiny segment of the airgun community, and an even tinier part of the shooting/hunting people, and half of us find pellets to be a pain, and don't want/need their speed/distance. Pellets wouldn't fall that much, if at all, because now usage and types are getting regulated more and more. Caliber restrictions and power levels are in the laws too. The Wild West days of doing whatever we wanted are ending and the pellet shooters will be the last of us. This is why I didn't want slugs, originally, or big bore, but they are here now and working. Have fun while it lasts, but don't get rid of your pellet guns either.

 

[Pumacarl]

I got a chuckle out of "low powered 50fpe .25."

It's all relative and each of us has a different idea of high power or low power. "Low power" to me is my 6 fpe FWB 300s.

It really is all relative. I wish that airgunning had stayed under the power level of .22lr so that we wouldn't be treated or taken seriously by all the people who know nothing about guns but are rabid about getting rid of all firearms. That ship has really sailed now though. My "low powered" .25 is a good example of how handy to me slugs can be without throwing more (or wasted) power into the mix. My Mrod makes 58fpe using 34gr pellets, and I like to brain woodchucks with at least 35fpe on target. This makes 90y my absolute max shot. My P15, using slugs, starting at a lower power can extend my range to 110y. Everyone always assumes that people using slugs are always using more power but that is completely backwards to how I use them. The same is true for my .177 slugger doing 21fpe and getting less pass throughs than the 30fpe .22 pellet gun that I used to shoot Starlings with. Figure them out and they are another arrow in your quiver when the time is right.