Farmplinker2
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Condor Condor Review: A case report in how "utilitarian" can be a positive
- Thread starter Franklink
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 107
- Views 18K
Hateful McNasty
Grand HAMster
Seemed a older model liquidation sale / clean out unsold old clutter. No black in poplar ones ,ect .. ( I liked blue ) nothing wrong with that. it's still a sweet deal that can upgrade like frank with spinloc option for example . Newer model blems sell higher and I did not see these were blems all had new tags . You may see another sale like it but I'd not hold my breath. Maybe next back log of inventory ...lol
- Original poster
- #23
Just to clarify, the $395 special came with the spin loc tank.
I ponied up the $50 for a set of their transfer ports, which they call "ring loc."
From what I gather, the difference between these special priced guns and current full priced models is only the trigger guard.
Hateful McNasty
Grand HAMster
Well that makes a better deal .. my understanding was the old pre spinloc .. oh well. Lol
fderry
HAM Specialist
Today's test was interesting. The first thing I noticed was how well the 15.89gr JSB pellets loaded. They slipped in with less resistance than the 13.73gr JSB pellets. Also easier to seat flush than the 13.73 gr pellets without deforming the pellet skirt. The resulting target hole was less than half the size of the 13.73gr target hole at 30 yards. I wasn't trying for ultimate accuracy, but I did aim at a dot on the target for all shots. Also looks like I should have started with a 2400psi fill pressure. It seems that AF setup the Talon SS .20 to shoot the 15.89gr JSB pellets out of the box. Based on this test I am going to focus on the15.98gr pellets. PDF of test attached.
- Original poster
- #26
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I agree about the shot string starting around the middle of the plateau. Like you said, slightly higher start pressure for those settings.
From what you've got, seems around shot 26-27 is where you're fps starts trending down. Looks like maybe good for 40ish shots within 30-35fps if you start around 2400psi, using that barrel and pellet and speed.
From what you've got, seems around shot 26-27 is where you're fps starts trending down. Looks like maybe good for 40ish shots within 30-35fps if you start around 2400psi, using that barrel and pellet and speed.
- Original poster
- #27
As suggested by somebody....I'm thinking of pulling the hammer weight, but replacing it with the correctly sized fender washer.
It seems that the hammer weight can go in front of the spring to increase preload, or behind the spring to increase hammer weight AND preload. At one point I had it put back together without the hammer weight and the edges of the hammer spring were digging into the plastic collar that sits next to the power wheel when the power wheel was rotated. Sharp spring ends on plastic. So a fender washer would prevent that, and take about 1/4" of hammer spring preload off. It'll surely result in easier cocking, and potentially aid in more consistent hammer strikes for better ES, specifically for a low power tune.
Between swapping hammer springs and adjusting preload and the power wheel and different barrel lengths and calibers, etc......lots of adjustability.
It seems that the hammer weight can go in front of the spring to increase preload, or behind the spring to increase hammer weight AND preload. At one point I had it put back together without the hammer weight and the edges of the hammer spring were digging into the plastic collar that sits next to the power wheel when the power wheel was rotated. Sharp spring ends on plastic. So a fender washer would prevent that, and take about 1/4" of hammer spring preload off. It'll surely result in easier cocking, and potentially aid in more consistent hammer strikes for better ES, specifically for a low power tune.
Between swapping hammer springs and adjusting preload and the power wheel and different barrel lengths and calibers, etc......lots of adjustability.
fderry
HAM Specialist
I took my old Talon SS apart to see what I had in it. I had a TT hammer (70 grams) in it. Also went through my old parts bin and found a stock weight and spacer/additional weight (45 grams/19 grams) in a package. Not sure where I got the stock weight & spacer. I have attached a picture with the weights identified. Not sure this will be helpful but thought you would be interested. Haven't taken the new Talon SS apart so I don't know what the current hammer weight is.
Oddly TT list their new Talon SS brass weight at 65 grams.
Oddly TT list their new Talon SS brass weight at 65 grams.
fderry
HAM Specialist
I just ran across this video on YouTube and thought you might like it.
fderry
HAM Specialist
I'm disappointed this morning! I received my order from AF for a .20 16mm 18" barrel and it is a .25 12mm 18" barrel. Awaiting a call back from AF.
I have verified the stock configuration and wasn't going to fine tune with the 12" barrel but may have to refine tune with current configuration for lack of parts.
I have verified the stock configuration and wasn't going to fine tune with the 12" barrel but may have to refine tune with current configuration for lack of parts.
- Original poster
- #32
Bummer. They got the length right, but not much else.
I got my condor .22 back in 2015 , I put a heavy hammer weight and a high flow top hat and it was great for a while lots of power but I could only get about 8 to 10 shots it would use 100 psi every shot after 5 years of hand pumping after every few shots I gave up and put it away then last year I bought a huma reg and a 250 bar cf bottle that was a shorter than the stock one now my lenth of pull is the same but I get over 60 shots and it stays the same fps every shot with reg set at 150 bar and a full 250 bar on the tank and the powee wheel at 2 its pushing 21g pellets 970 fps its much better now to shoot
That's the kind of luck I have man! More waiting.
fderry
HAM Specialist
Got through to AF and they are going to send a return label and ship the correct barrel once I get the return shipped to them.
While I was waiting, I decided to try some NSA slugs in the current configuration. I shot the NSA 14.9 gr at a power wheel setting of 10-1 and averaged 906fps for 10 shots. The NSA 18.9gr averaged 740fps for 10 shots with the same power wheel setting.
Interestingly, the 18.9gr slugs had a decent grouping at 30 yards. The 14.9gr slugs not so much.
I was on the bench with the rifle level. Both slugs felt loose in the breach. I put the rifle muzzle up and down to see if the slugs would fall out or fall forward in the barrel. The slugs stayed put but I am still concerned with the loose fit. @Franklink I'm interested if you have seen the same slug fitting with your Condor?
I will wait until I get my 18" barrel before I continue any slug testing.
I'm not sure if I am going to optimize the Talon SS with the 12" barrel for pellets while I wait for the 18" barrel or wait until I have it in its final configuration.
While I was waiting, I decided to try some NSA slugs in the current configuration. I shot the NSA 14.9 gr at a power wheel setting of 10-1 and averaged 906fps for 10 shots. The NSA 18.9gr averaged 740fps for 10 shots with the same power wheel setting.
Interestingly, the 18.9gr slugs had a decent grouping at 30 yards. The 14.9gr slugs not so much.
I was on the bench with the rifle level. Both slugs felt loose in the breach. I put the rifle muzzle up and down to see if the slugs would fall out or fall forward in the barrel. The slugs stayed put but I am still concerned with the loose fit. @Franklink I'm interested if you have seen the same slug fitting with your Condor?
I will wait until I get my 18" barrel before I continue any slug testing.
I'm not sure if I am going to optimize the Talon SS with the 12" barrel for pellets while I wait for the 18" barrel or wait until I have it in its final configuration.
- Original poster
- #36
Of the three projectiles Ive tried so far, the 15.89s were the easiest to push into the barrel with my thumb. The hardest was the 13.73. The 18.9 were somewhere in the middle of those other two.
Really interesting to push a pellet through the length of the bore with a cleaning rod. The pencil thin part of the barrel is MUCH larger bore than the rest. Removing that much of the OD really opens up the bore in in that first 2.5ish inches. It's a less than ideal way to machine a barrel but with the design, it appears that the hammer and spring need that drastic reduction in OD to have a place to do their thing.
- Original poster
- #37
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Ran some Chrono numbers tonight....
First was with .20/18.13s. Took me about ten minutes to make a small supply. They're of course .22s sized down to .20. I struggle to get them sized consistently and it was very obvious on the seating in the barrel and what those loose and tight outliers were doing as far as fps goes.
From 2050psi to about 1650 I got 34 shots, averaging about 940fps, with a 33.7fps ES. If this was graphed out it'd be ugly, because of those loose and tight fitting pellets. So about 35 shots at 35 foot pounds with about a 35fps ES. Horizontal 2, vertical 1 for the power wheel to produce that. 0.123 transfer port still. Accuracy of these shots at 100 yards was a shotgun.
I didn't run the numbers through a spread sheet but here they are if interested.
The other string I ran was with the .20/15.89. From 2000 to 1500 psi I got 40 shots from 968.6 to 941fps, average of about 945-950. So about 40 shots @ 32fpe each, with a 27.5fps ES. This one would look pretty nice all.graphed out, SD would be much better than the data from the previous string. Horizontal 1, vertical 1 on the power wheel. 0.123 transfer port.
Here's the raw data.
This is the 20/15.89 at 100 yards. Everything above the line was me moving the turrets around. Once I got it mostly zeroed I picked an open spot on the bottom left, shot one shot and then used that hole as my aim point for the rest of the shots, roughly 20 pellets there
And a reference photo (wasn't shooting these pellets, just a convenient size tin).
I'm going to pull the barrel and open up that choke a bit. I'm also going to try to swap the weight for a fender washer. I'm wondering if hitting the valve lighter and maybe with a larger TP will make the shot quieter. It's louder than I like right now.
The string with the .20/15.89s is respectable.
Not quite as many consistent shots as I was thinking, but sure is easy on the air, only filling from 2000-1500.
First was with .20/18.13s. Took me about ten minutes to make a small supply. They're of course .22s sized down to .20. I struggle to get them sized consistently and it was very obvious on the seating in the barrel and what those loose and tight outliers were doing as far as fps goes.
From 2050psi to about 1650 I got 34 shots, averaging about 940fps, with a 33.7fps ES. If this was graphed out it'd be ugly, because of those loose and tight fitting pellets. So about 35 shots at 35 foot pounds with about a 35fps ES. Horizontal 2, vertical 1 for the power wheel to produce that. 0.123 transfer port still. Accuracy of these shots at 100 yards was a shotgun.
I didn't run the numbers through a spread sheet but here they are if interested.
The other string I ran was with the .20/15.89. From 2000 to 1500 psi I got 40 shots from 968.6 to 941fps, average of about 945-950. So about 40 shots @ 32fpe each, with a 27.5fps ES. This one would look pretty nice all.graphed out, SD would be much better than the data from the previous string. Horizontal 1, vertical 1 on the power wheel. 0.123 transfer port.
Here's the raw data.
This is the 20/15.89 at 100 yards. Everything above the line was me moving the turrets around. Once I got it mostly zeroed I picked an open spot on the bottom left, shot one shot and then used that hole as my aim point for the rest of the shots, roughly 20 pellets there
And a reference photo (wasn't shooting these pellets, just a convenient size tin).
I'm going to pull the barrel and open up that choke a bit. I'm also going to try to swap the weight for a fender washer. I'm wondering if hitting the valve lighter and maybe with a larger TP will make the shot quieter. It's louder than I like right now.
The string with the .20/15.89s is respectable.
Not quite as many consistent shots as I was thinking, but sure is easy on the air, only filling from 2000-1500.
- Original poster
- #38
I should add that I'm not finding the trigger nearly as objectionable as I was lead to believe the Airforce trigger is. (It's better than out of the box triggers I've felt on more expensive guns).
And so far haven't experienced the frame flex, although all my shooting has been form the same position.
And so far haven't experienced the frame flex, although all my shooting has been form the same position.
fderry
HAM Specialist
I was thinking about the best way to quickly get to a reasonable tune on a non-regulated gun. Your data and mine indicate that the top of the curve for the 15.89gr pellet at around 900fps is about 1750psi (~120bar). Would it make sense to use a regulated fill adapter from an external fill bottle set at 1750 psi as a tethered air supply and adjust the tophat orifice size and hammer spring adjuster/hammer weight while having a constant 1750psi to work with? Once you have a good balance with this setup you could focus on a fine tune of the curve unregulated. Just a late-night thought.
- Original poster
- #40
Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
Unrelated......I just tried the oring on the top hat trick and it certainly quieted down the shot, and also slowed it drastically. Was just a few shots and no Chrono but they're hitting about a foot lower @ 100yards than they were without the oring. MUCH quieter report. Probably worth investigating further.
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