Condor Condor Review: A case report in how "utilitarian" can be a positive

[fderry]

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

Unrelated......I just tried the oring on the top hat trick and it certainly quieted down the shot, and also slowed it drastically. Was just a few shots and no Chrono but they're hitting about a foot lower @ 100yards than they were without the oring. MUCH quieter report. Probably worth investigating further.

I have been wondering about the o-ring behind the top hat trick. It sounds like the B-Staley modification that is popular on Crosman pistols. I'm using the B-Staley mod on my 1701 pistol with good results.

I have the TT shim kit on hand but haven't tried them yet. The kit includes 3 plastic shims. A single shim is 0.0645" thick, 0.478" diameter and a 0.25 hole in the center. Looks like they just limit the top hat/valve opening travel. An o-ring would also have a bit of buffering.

I'm not as fast as you on modifications but am trying to keep up!

 

[Franklink]

I have been wondering about the o-ring behind the top hat trick. It sounds like the B-Staley modification that is popular on Crosman pistols. I'm using the B-Staley mod on my 1701 pistol with good results.

....

I'm not as fast as you on modifications but am trying to keep up!

Seems very much like the Bstaley mod for the crosman guns. I remember guys reporting much more consistent shot strings, as well as higher shot counts when using that oring.

As for adjustments, I don't have any set endpoints with the Condor, just tinkering and having fun.

 

[Franklink]

Just did some barrel work.....focused on two areas; easing the transition from the pencil thin barrel to the full 16mm OD, and the tight choke.

Pretty cool to feel the difference. Amazing improvements can be done to a barrel with some tight fitting patches and proper use of abrasives. (And can do it even more properly if willing to pour lead laps).

Photos of my process and the products I Iike to use.
Credit to @Arzrover and Mike Nische for the wisdom they've shared with me when it comes to barrels, and full acknowledgement that I'm no expert like they both are.

 

[Franklink]

Things are coming together!!!

On the right is a 10 shot group of NSA .20/18.9s @ 100 yards.
0.145 transfer port
power wheel = horizontal 1 and vertical 1
PSI 2050-1800 = 945-965fps (38fpe)

On the left is a 20 shot group of JSB .20/15.89 @ 100 yards
0.123 transfer port
power wheel = horizontal 1 and vertical 1
PSI 2050-1700 = 935-965fps (32fpe)

Wind is blowing, switching left to right. The high shot in the 20 of the 15.89s was me, FPS was coming down near the end of the useable pressure so I held slightly high to account for it but didn't need to cuz it hit right where I aimed.

The orange stickers are exactly MOA sized, I held an MOA coin on there and they're the same diameter.



And I hushed it down by going to the serious moderator. Gun is very, very, very long now. When walking back to get the targets I was chuckling to myself that it's a Made in America Panthera now, lol.
That longer moderator does the trick though, nice and quiet.


Either of these "tunes" are up to my standards. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for prairie dogs and other long range vermin that needs leaded.

Using the lowest setting on the power wheel is shifting my useable pressure window WAY down. If I fill to even halfway between 2000 and 2200 I'll have slow first shots. Just slightly past the 2000 mark on the gauge is money. I'm loving it, SO easy on the air consumption.

This is probably the last installment for who knows how long. I've got to brush hog a pasture for the rest of today, and then start back a stretch of long days at work tomorrow.

Fun gun!

 

[Danman]

Things are coming together!!!

On the right is a 10 shot group of NSA .20/18.9s @ 100 yards.
0.145 transfer port
power wheel = horizontal 1 and vertical 1
PSI 2050-1800 = 945-965fps (38fpe)

On the left is a 20 shot group of JSB .20/15.89 @ 100 yards
0.123 transfer port
power wheel = horizontal 1 and vertical 1
PSI 2050-1700 = 935-965fps (32fpe)

Wind is blowing, switching left to right. The high shot in the 20 of the 15.89s was me, FPS was coming down near the end of the useable pressure so I held slightly high to account for it but didn't need to cuz it hit right where I aimed.

The orange stickers are exactly MOA sized, I held an MOA coin on there and they're the same diameter.

View attachment 7356

And I hushed it down by going to the serious moderator. Gun is very, very, very long now. When walking back to get the targets I was chuckling to myself that it's a Made in America Panthera now, lol.
That longer moderator does the trick though, nice and quiet.
View attachment 7355

Either of these "tunes" are up to my standards. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for prairie dogs and other long range vermin that needs leaded.

Using the lowest setting on the power wheel is shifting my useable pressure window WAY down. If I fill to even halfway between 2000 and 2200 I'll have slow first shots. Just slightly past the 2000 mark on the gauge is money. I'm loving it, SO easy on the air consumption.

This is probably the last installment for who knows how long. I've got to brush hog a pasture for the rest of today, and then start back a stretch of long days at work tomorrow.

Fun gun!

Next time you have a tape handy can u measure the gun @Franklink, with and without the mod on?! Also....That looks like some serious barrel polishing, you did something similar with your Ghosts barrel (s?) ... very nice results @ 100Y! It's one thing to read a standard gun review but it's another to read such an in-depth one where your not afraid to make some changes/improvements! (Regardless of what the oe's might think) At the end of the day it's your money and your gun, just a great platform to tinker and mod imo. When your done with it maybe you can have a .20cal battle between the 2

 

[Franklink]

Next time you have a tape handy can u measure the gun @Franklink, with and without the mod on?! Also....That looks like some serious barrel polishing, you did something similar with your Ghosts barrel (s?) ... very nice results @ 100Y! It's one thing to read a standard gun review but it's another to read such an in-depth one where your not afraid to make some changes/improvements! (Regardless of what the oe's might think) At the end of the day it's your money and your gun, just a great platform to tinker and mod imo. When your done with it maybe you can have a .20cal battle between the 2

38" without the moderator, 7.5" more with it and the adaptor, so 45.5" or so. Feels mighty long after Ghosting.

For the Ghost the .20 barrel didn't need any work.
The .177 and .22 barrels DID.

 

[Franklink]

Small update.....called AF this morning with the goal of seeing if the new trigger guard can fit my Condor. I haven't seen the frame flex so I'm mostly interested in this for getting a different grip on the gun, and the photos on AF website look like that's a possibility with the newer trigger guard. Anyway, very helpful and polite customer service rep called me back about ten min later and said that the new trigger guard is not compatible with the older Condors.
Slight bummer, but also gonna save me some money, lol.

It doesn't appear that Talon Tunes runs batches of the WokGuards anymore or that would be an option too....

 

[Danman]

Small update.....called AF this morning with the goal of seeing if the new trigger guard can fit my Condor. I haven't seen the frame flex so I'm mostly interested in this for getting a different grip on the gun, and the photos on AF website look like that's a possibility with the newer trigger guard. Anyway, very helpful and polite customer service rep called me back about ten min later and said that the new trigger guard is not compatible with the older Condors.
Slight bummer, but also gonna save me some money, lol.

It doesn't appear that Talon Tunes runs batches of the WokGuards anymore or that would be an option too....

Is the original plastic like the Ghost, or its got some rubber? So unlikely to fit AR/AK grips to it?

 

[Franklink]

Is the original plastic like the Ghost, or its got some rubber? So unlikely to fit AR/AK grips to it?

The OEM grip on a Ghost is much nicer than the OEM grip on a Condor.

The Condor grip is flat sided and hard plastic. "Utilitarian" perfectly describes the AF OEM grip, and not in a good way, lol. And the way it attaches makes any other (aftermarket) grip an impossibility.

Utilitarian to me has a couple meanings. It can mean, straightforward and no unnecessary frills and embellishments. Nothing extra to overcomplicate. I view that meaning as how the Condor is a utilitarian airgun. It's got only what it needs and nothing more. Or utilitarian can mean simple to the point of barely getting the job done. Ie it's so basic that the criteria for the intended use are barely met. The OEM grip is that second kind of utilitarian.

 

[Franklink]

Talon Tunes Tony told me a bit ago that he should have some more of the WokGard2s back on his website in a couple weeks.

 

[Franklink]

Shot the Condor a bit this morning, all with the .20/18.9gr NSA at about 950fps.

Still using the 0.145 transfer port, filling to 2050 and shooting down to 1800. Gets about 30 shots per fill with a 35fps spread. 25 shots per fill with a 25fps spread. If a guy wanted to regulate this one, either externally or on-board, 1900psi would be the sweet spot for what I'm doing with the gun so far.

Had to rezero the scope first since I swapped out the pic rail for the longer one. 30 yards first. Took 4-5 shots to get to the middle of the bull, and another two shots nearly touching so set the turrets for there and moved out to 100yards.

Shot quite a bit and the wind was blowing of course. When the wind would cooperate this is pretty representative of what I saw this morning. This is 20 shots on the same fill, same point of aim for all 20 shots. The sticker is one moa. A quite respectable 100 yard, 20 shot group for a $400 gun.



Our of curiosity I repeated the experiment with the Ghost .20 and got this. Same concept, 20 consecutive shots with the same point of aim.



The horizontal is about the same, so wind conditions worth 2.1" of drift with these 0.09bc slugs. Vertical is a bit tighter with the Ghost, as it should be, with the tighter ES.

I also shot an EBR card @ 100 yards with the Condor and it scored a 208.

All in all I was pleasantly surprised. The .20 Condor will group em much better than I would have guessed possible from a budget offering this low down the spectrum. The 20 shot group from the Ghost is better, but it's not 5 times better (rough difference in the price). Although there is more to a gun than accuracy (ergos, shot count, ease of adjustability, etc)..... it's got to be accurate for the rest to even be considered.

I'm certainly not disappointed with the accuracy I'm seeing from the Condor.

 

[Franklink]

And did the same thing with JSB .20/15.89s a bit ago. Same thing = 20 consecutive shots at 100 yards without trying to hold for any wind, just holding dead center on the 1 MOA orange sticker.

All I did was swap out the .145 transfer port for the .123. Starting fill pressure = 2000, ending fill pressure = 1900. Left the hammer tension the same as earlier, 1-1. This was 20 shots and was still @ 1900psi when done. I'd guess something closer to 40-45 shots per fill here, as 28-30 shots with the slugs and the bigger transfer port was getting me down to 1800psi. Fps with all that was 930-950 with a prior Chrono sessions so assuming it's that again today.

Gun is EXTREMELY quiet with the .20/15.89s and the 0.123 transfer port. And very pleasant to shoot.

Okay, here's the accuracy.


Wind gust took one far right, my little ribbon/wind flag went horizontal right then.

That is pretty dang good for 20 consecutive shots @ 100 yards in 10-15mph winds from a $400 gun and pellets @ only 31fpe.

Other than some polishing, this gun is stock(ish) The only aftermarket anything is scope and scope mounts. As for modifications...I fixed the trigger by deleting the auto reset trigger. I reworked the barrel but it is the factory barrel. I say "reworked" because 280 grit lapping compound can remove some metal. I also moved the hammer weight to in front of the hammer spring so that it's preload and not preload+hammer weight. And of course swapping the AirForce Ring Loc transfer ports around.

Not too shabby! Minus the wind gust, that's 19 shots that are all all minute of starling, and Euro dove/Pdog kill zone.

 

[fderry]

Good looking groups independent of the cost of the rifle! Probably has a lot to do with the shooter/tuner. I'm impressed with efficiency and power you are getting with your unregulated Condor. What are you thinking about for pellet/slug weigh and velocities for a 100 to 200yard tune?

I have received my .20 16mm 18in barrel. Cleaned it and installed it tonight. I have seen the same tightness at the breach and choke that you saw. Again, same with pellet resistance when pushing pellet through barrel. Not ready to polish barrel yet.

Also going to try your idea of using the small weight as a pre-load only. Don't have enough data yet to start playing with my Ring Loc transfer ports yet. My Talon SS has a less powerful bottle valve than yours so I'm going to be interested in what I will see for velocity.

 

[Franklink]

.....What are you thinking about for pellet/slug weigh and velocities for a 100 to 200yard tune?

I have received my .20 16mm 18in barrel. Cleaned it and installed it tonight. I have seen the same tightness at the breach and choke that you saw. Again, same with pellet resistance when pushing pellet through barrel. Not ready to polish barrel yet.

Also going to try your idea of using the small weight as a pre-load only. Don't have enough data yet to start playing with my Ring Loc transfer ports yet. My Talon SS has a less powerful bottle valve than yours so I'm going to be interested in what I will see for velocity.

Would like to try some but not willing to pay for the shipping on the Zans .20/25gr. That's the heaviest commercial slug that I'm aware of. Not sure why none of the US retailers that stock the other Zan offerings don't stock these too. So for slugs I'm maxed out with the 18.9gr NSA for now. For pellets l'll probably try some of the .22/25.4 Monster RDs sized down to .20, but not too optimistic there. From lots of other .20 testing, the .18.9gr NSA and the 15.89gr JSB are as good as it gets. They are lightweights but they stay stable (accurate) for a very long ways, much further than many other higher fpe options. Just this evening I was considering dedicating the Condor to the .20/15.89, but I'm not positive if that's what I want to do with it yet. If I was to put a regulator on it, and just stick with a 3000psi aluminum, I have a feeling I'd get an awful lot of shots with a reg pressure of 1900. But it's just an idea for now. I also have a friend that is willing to take on the project of matching a spare .22 barrel I have on hand, as well as cutting 1/2x20 threads into both the .20 and the .22 barrel. And again, I'm not sure I want to go that route. Just tinkering and experimenting for now.

So for now for long range it'll be the 15.89 JSBs at 940ish, and the 18.9gr NSAs @ 950ish.

I went into the rabbit hole of eBay AirForce parts s few days ago. I found a Chinese retailer selling a parts bundle for less than $30. I mostly wanted it for the metal power wheel, versus OEM plastic, but it also comes with a brass hammer and breech slide and some brass barrel bushings, as well as a different hammer spring. I sure don't need/want a heavier hammer spring that I already have but wouldn't be against cutting off some coils from a spare spring to go for a low power tune with the .20/13.73. So anyway, that parts bundle is on the slow boat from China.

I too am interested in seeing the type of fps your 18 inch .20 barrel produces.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Being a .20 I assume beggers can't be too choosing. If thems the slugs you want you may as well bite the bullet (tee hee) and get them and enough to make it worth the wile / cost .. it's not like .20 out there as easy and affordable as say .177 or .22 ..lol

I quick looked to see if there was a mold to use in something to melt and pore your own .. don't see a thing covering .20.

 

[Danman]

Would like to try some but not willing to pay for the shipping on the Zans .20/25gr. That's the heaviest commercial slug that I'm aware of. Not sure why none of the US retailers that stock the other Zan offerings don't stock these too. So for slugs I'm maxed out with the 18.9gr NSA for now. For pellets l'll probably try some of the .22/25.4 Monster RDs sized down to .20, but not too optimistic there. From lots of other .20 testing, the .18.9gr NSA and the 15.89gr JSB are as good as it gets. They are lightweights but they stay stable (accurate) for a very long ways, much further than many other higher fpe options. Just this evening I was considering dedicating the Condor to the .20/15.89, but I'm not positive if that's what I want to do with it yet. If I was to put a regulator on it, and just stick with a 3000psi aluminum, I have a feeling I'd get an awful lot of shots with a reg pressure of 1900. But it's just an idea for now. I also have a friend that is willing to take on the project of matching a spare .22 barrel I have on hand, as well as cutting 1/2x20 threads into both the .20 and the .22 barrel. And again, I'm not sure I want to go that route. Just tinkering and experimenting for now.

So for now for long range it'll be the 15.89 JSBs at 940ish, and the 18.9gr NSAs @ 950ish.

I went into the rabbit hole of eBay AirForce parts s few days ago. I found a Chinese retailer selling a parts bundle for less than $30. I mostly wanted it for the metal power wheel, versus OEM plastic, but it also comes with a brass hammer and breech slide and some brass barrel bushings, as well as a different hammer spring. I sure don't need/want a heavier hammer spring that I already have but wouldn't be against cutting off some coils from a spare spring to go for a low power tune with the .20/13.73. So anyway, that parts bundle is on the slow boat from China.

I too am interested in seeing the type of fps your 18 inch .20 barrel produces.

That actually blows my mind that AF hasn't addressed or offered upgrades to these small deficiencies but some Chinese company has! ...Personally? I'd also love to see you play with a .25 barrel as well for it. The platform definitely has the power to send big .25 pellets/slugs. That is the largest stock barrel for the Condor but I'm sure someone out there has stuffed a .30 or .35 barrel in one!

 

[Franklink]

That actually blows my mind that AF hasn't addressed or offered upgrades to these small deficiencies but some Chinese company has! ...Personally? I'd also love to see you play with a .25 barrel as well for it. The platform definitely has the power to send big .25 pellets/slugs. That is the largest stock barrel for the Condor but I'm sure someone out there has stuffed a .30 or .35 barrel in one!

If I was gonna go crazy and go real big fpe I think I'd do a .257 and possibly cast slugs for it. I've got LOTS of lead collected from my traps. Talon Tunes sells a .257 drop in barrel, but they want $495 for it, which is more than I paid for the gun!!! That falls into the same category as $55 shipping for a $15 box of Zans slugs out of Euro.... ridiculous.

I'm just not a big bore/big fpe guy though. I really enjoy airguns for what they are. My niches of airgun enjoyment are sub20 field target, ballistics/barrels/projectiles, and stretching it WAY out with relatively low power (extreme FT and long range pesting). None of that needs a big bore airgun with loads of fpe. Right now my arsenal tops out at about 55fpe and that is the gun I shoot the least. I own .22, .20, and .177 and kinda like it that way.

 

[Franklink]

Made up a couple .20/25.4s just now. Hope to find some time this afternoon to try em out. With the Condor and larger transfer ports, I imagine they'll go as fast as I dare.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

That actually blows my mind that AF hasn't addressed or offered upgrades to these small deficiencies but some Chinese company has! ...Personally? I'd also love to see you play with a .25 barrel as well for it. The platform definitely has the power to send big .25 pellets/slugs. That is the largest stock barrel for the Condor but I'm sure someone out there has stuffed a .30 or .35 barrel in one!

I think for me and a self opinion I'd do .22 . Good all around , plenty out there to choose in slugs or pellet , easy to get local ,and affordable ..

 

[Danman]

If I was gonna go crazy and go real big fpe I think I'd do a .257 and possibly cast slugs for it. I've got LOTS of lead collected from my traps. Talon Tunes sells a .257 drop in barrel, but they want $495 for it, which is more than I paid for the gun!!! That falls into the same category as $55 shipping for a $15 box of Zans slugs out of Euro.... ridiculous.

I'm just not a big bore/big fpe guy though. I really enjoy airguns for what they are. My niches of airgun enjoyment are sub20 field target, ballistics/barrels/projectiles, and stretching it WAY out with relatively low power (extreme FT and long range pesting). None of that needs a big bore airgun with loads of fpe. Right now my arsenal tops out at about 55fpe and that is the gun I shoot the least. I own .22, .20, and .177 and kinda like it that way.

I 100% hear ya, funny my 57fpe Ghost also gets shot the least(mostly bc the Mrds cost, and it's no fun to hand pump back up) .177 and .22 are my Favs with .20 just not getting enough support. The .25/.30 calls to me but the intelligent person inside of me says to just get a .22LR or something similar if I need more power... im too addicted to air power though! I recall reading a thread of someone stuffing a .257 barrel into the Condor, or buying one already with it. Just imagine that smack though on a p-dog@ 150Yards!