Break Barrel Sudden R9 issue ,need some advice

[Sureshot]

How about the crown? Maybe the gun got accidently bumped damaging the crown. Just a thought.

Thanks for the reply. I just read this. Nope, The crown has not been damaged . I’m very conscious of the crowns as I know it can cause big problems.
However, I just solved the problem . It was a worn out breech seal, flat as a pancake when I pulled it out . I put a new one in and we’re back to dime size at 40 yards..
thanks again for taking the time to help me.

 

[Danman]

Thanks for the reply. I just read this. Nope, The crown has not been damaged . I’m very conscious of the crowns as I know it can cause big problems.
However, I just solved the problem . It was a worn out breech seal, flat as a pancake when I pulled it out . I put a new one in and we’re back to dime size at 40 yards..
thanks again for taking the time to help me.

So do you think that old seal was affecting the lockup positioning then? I would personally use a little lube for the piston to slide in on install.

 

[rayroz]

Before you do anything , put the thing down for a day or two .
Hard to do but its alway better to just give it a rest and only change one thing at a time .
Ray

 

[Hoppalong Doc]

Isn't the wealth of knowlege found on this fourm wonderful! We all have experience that eventually solves airgun problems. Orv

 

[Sureshot]

So do you think that old seal was affecting the lockup positioning then? I would personally use a little lube for the piston to slide in on install.

No, I don’t think the old seal was affecting the lock up position. I think the old seal was causing a loss of power resulting in producing a stringing effect due to an air leak, but for some reason, I was unable to detect the air leak? I can’t quite understand that. The Vortek piston that I put in the receiver was quite lubed with Molly, but none on the top. It certainly went in too hard now that I think about it. I have never resized a piston before and from what I’ve read Vortek seals generally don’t need resizing. I did measure the diameter before I put it in and it was 26.2 mm with the receiver being 26 mm . That should’ve clued me in but I missed it. The gun seems quite accurate, especially shooting Barracuda FT‘s. The smart thing for me to do is just leave it alone, famous last words.

 

[Sureshot]

Without the barrel locked up is there any side to side slop? There shouldn't be any at all and there should be a little drag when moving it. Blowing into the barrel isn't going to show a leaking breach seal. Springers develop a 1000psi or more.

I didn’t realize there was that much pressure in there. I guess now it was quite obvious that blowing down the barrel was not gonna detect anything. No side to side motion in the gun.
What type of lube should be between the barrel shims and the block ?Molly paste?

 

[Dogowski]

Before you do anything , put the thing down for a day or two .
Hard to do but its alway better to just give it a rest and only change one thing at a time .
Ray

Hi rayroz and thats a great tip! Welcome to the forum.

 

[Madhatter]

I didn’t realize there was that much pressure in there. I guess now it was quite obvious that blowing down the barrel was not gonna detect anything. No side to side motion in the gun.
What type of lube should be between the barrel shims and the block ?Molly paste?

I just put a couple of drops of gun oil and wipe off the excess. You don't want to over lube it as it will only attract dust and dirt which will wear on the surfaces.

 

[Roamin Greco 1]

Good suggestions. I’ve never used JB in any barrel. I assume you do that with a brass brush like you find in a general cleaning kit.
But,good news, I replaced the seal and problem solved. The culprit was a flat seal. When I took it out it measured 3.1 mm diameter while the new one is 3.4 mm . Overtime , even though there was no air leaking from the breech that I couldn’t find and visually it looked great , the seal had tanked . Lesson learned there. FTT‘s 4.52 seem to be back in favour for this R9. Woo hoo !!
I’m gonna be much quicker to replace the seals in my guns from now on even though I think they look decent.

Great news. Air could have been leaking downward, too. I have heard of folks shimming a breach seal as a temporary fix.

As far as lubing the "receiver," I think you mean the inside of the spring cylinder. I would ask the folks at Vortek who gave you the seal, but I have read that a thin layer of moly grease on the outside of the seal works its way into the crosshatchmarks inside the cylinder and lubricates the seal. Then after the moly grease is throughly distributed, some of which will continue to migrate forward to lube the seal, every couple of tins or once a year, a drop of silicone chamber oil down the transfer port is all it needs to keep the piston seal lubricated.

 

[Roamin Greco 1]

Good suggestions. I’ve never used JB in any barrel. I assume you do that with a brass brush like you find in a general cleaning kit.
But,good news, I replaced the seal and problem solved. The culprit was a flat seal. When I took it out it measured 3.1 mm diameter while the new one is 3.4 mm . Overtime , even though there was no air leaking from the breech that I couldn’t find and visually it looked great , the seal had tanked . Lesson learned there. FTT‘s 4.52 seem to be back in favour for this R9. Woo hoo !!
I’m gonna be much quicker to replace the seals in my guns from now on even though I think they look decent.

I have used a bronze brush to good effect, but others on in this Community use a cotton bore mop instead and let the JB do it's own work without help from the bronze bristle brush. Others wrap the bronze brush with a patch, but that didn't work for me. It was too messy and hard to push through.

 

[Sureshot]

When cleaning my barrels I’ve never had a good feeling pulling anything through that is overly tight like 2 or even 3 cleaning patches layered together. All it takes is just one time to have the string snap leaving the tight patches stuck in the middle of the barrel . That’s the stuff of nightmares for me as I had it happen to me once. That’s probably why I’ve never scrub a barrel with JB past as I’m afraid to get something stuck.

 

[Pumacarl]

Thanks for the reply Orv
Actually there’s no barrel droop in this gun, which is surprising because every other HW break barrel that I own has suffer suffers from some form of barrel misalignment. My HW 50 right out of the box was so far off to the left that I couldn’t even put a scope on it. I became so frustrated with it that I put a C clamp where the barrel goes into the receiver and on a flat surface , bent it back over and now it’s perfect. Not exactly what I wanted to do with a brand new gun but for some reason, it worked really well. I think I got lucky.

Ballsy move, good for you! There used to be a lot of discussion, back in the day, about barrel bending but most definitely did not want to do it, or have it done. Sometimes, that's what it takes, but I am really happy that I never had to do it.

 

[Sureshot]

It also appeared to my surprise that bending the barrel had absolutely no negative effect on accuracy. When I first mounted a scope on the new HW 50 ,the horizontal click adjustment to the right had to be at the very maximum end to even come close to the POA. I was worried that it would ruin every scope I put on it so really had no choice . I think the trick is to go very very slow and continually check to see how far you’re coming over. This means the scope and stock have to be removed and put back on numerous times until the scope is pretty well optically centred and the pellet is hitting the point of aim. It took me all one evening to do it, but now this gun is probably the most accurate gun that I have..

 

[Roamin Greco 1]

It also appeared to my surprise that bending the barrel had absolutely no negative effect on accuracy. When I first mounted a scope on the new HW 50 ,the horizontal click adjustment to the right had to be at the very maximum end to even come close to the POA. I was worried that it would ruin every scope I put on it so really had no choice . I think the trick is to go very very slow and continually check to see how far you’re coming over. This means the scope and stock have to be removed and put back on numerous times until the scope is pretty well optically centred and the pellet is hitting the point of aim. It took me all one evening to do it, but now this gun is probably the most accurate gun that I have..

Here's my favorite picture relating to barrel bending. The moral: as long as the last bit of the barrel is straight, that is where the accuracy comes from.

 

[Roamin Greco 1]

I didn’t realize there was that much pressure in there. I guess now it was quite obvious that blowing down the barrel was not gonna detect anything. No side to side motion in the gun.
What type of lube should be between the barrel shims and the block ?Molly paste?

A very small amount of moly should do it, anywhere there is metal on metal. The moly particles will burnish themselves into the metal and continue to reduce friction long after the grease, which is the carrier, wears away.

Glad your gun is shooting well again, I never would have predicted that the breach seal would have suddenly caused a loss in accuracy like that. In my mind, that would be a gradual change as the seal gets compressed. I was almost certain that leading in the barrel would have been the cause. Anyway, as long as it is working well, don't fix it more.