EBR Really Should Change Its Rules, Transparency Wouldn’t Hurt Either

[Billm]

Their rules for Extreme Benchrest state:

• Pro Class – Any person associated with any company, promoter or manufacturer of airguns or airgun accessories. Also, any competitor who has placed higher than 3rd in any EBR BR competition. Also, any person who wishes to declare themselves as a Pro Class Shooter may do so.
• Sportsman Class – All other competitors who are not classified in the Pro Class for this event.

More than half the podium for the 100yd Benchrest Sportsman’s class do not meet the criteria for the sportsman class. They are either sponsored or industry employees. That’s not really fair for the shooters that really do meet the stated criteria. That’s not the fault of the shooters, but is the responsibility of the organizers.

 

[Solo1]

One of the things i really don’t like about the big comps. I really wish they would decide to have a comp for average joe or feed the pro’s money and prizes

 

[Pumacarl]

Shouldn't the person who showed up and shot the best at any of the different events be the winner anyway? This year at 100 the winner was in the Junior Class to me, best score = winner. It's not like they shoot any differently, the best shot is the best shot, I would say that he won his class and the competition.

 

[Ezana4CE]

Their rules for Extreme Benchrest state:

• Pro Class – Any person associated with any company, promoter or manufacturer of airguns or airgun accessories. Also, any competitor who has placed higher than 3rd in any EBR BR competition. Also, any person who wishes to declare themselves as a Pro Class Shooter may do so.
• Sportsman Class – All other competitors who are not classified in the Pro Class for this event.

More than half the podium for the 100yd Benchrest Sportsman’s class do not meet the criteria for the sportsman class. They are either sponsored or industry employees. That’s not really fair for the shooters that really do meet the stated criteria. That’s not the fault of the shooters, but is the responsibility of the organizers.

@Billm What you’re saying makes sense to me. How do egregious rule violations get by without enforcement? Does the staff realize what’s occurring? Have you inquired about this?

 

[Ezana4CE]

One of the things i really don’t like about the big comps. I really wish they would decide to have a comp for average joe or feed the pro’s money and prizes

Y’all make it sound like “Beat Bobby Flay” or something. So that I understand y’all correctly, are you saying that guys that are YouTubers or placed 3rd place or above in previous competitions are competing against new comers? I’d be pissed if I traveled and paid money to lose Sportsman’s Class to a guy I read about placing in RMAC or EBR who sits at a bench all year shooting paper and posting about it on the forums. Even more so if it’s a YouTuber or team shooter.

Where’s a good fink when you need em?

 

[Billm]

@Billm What you’re saying makes sense to me. How do egregious rule violations get by without enforcement? Does the staff realize what’s occurring? Have you inquired about this?

I honestly don’t think they care. Considering their definition of Pros and Sportsman, one has to ask how one of the airgun manufacturers employees is on the podium, another has been shooting at major events for several years, shot within 10 points of Thayne Simmons at PAC and I believe has some sponsorship. Not only are some of these flagrant rules violations, but they make a joke of the whole idea of having a Pro and a Sportsman class.
@Ezana4CE that’s exactly what I’m saying. I’m not saying they shouldn’t have competed, or that they didn’t shoot well, but they should be in the Pro class.

 

[Ezana4CE]

I honestly don’t think they care. Considering their definition of Pros and Sportsman, one has to ask how one of the airgun manufacturers employees is on the podium, another has been shooting at major events for several years, shot within 10 points of Thayne Simmons at PAC and I believe has some sponsorship. Not only are some of these flagrant rules violations, but they make a joke of the whole idea of having a Pro and a Sportsman class.
@Ezana4CE that’s exactly what I’m saying. I’m not saying they shouldn’t have competed, or that they didn’t shoot well, but they should be in the Pro class.

@Billm This may be the by-product of ridiculing the 1st-grader going to the teacher and letting them know, “Teacher, the other kids aren’t playing fair. They keep picking the 5th graders for teamates.”

What’s the point of rules if they aren’t enforced?

 

[BBGunn]

I use to shoot competitive events in rifle, pistol and archery. I have four Oregon State titles and several more individual event wins at the state level. Politics within the organizations and cheating is what drove me away from competitive shooting..., forever.

When money is involved, cheating ALWAYS happens. No truer statement than, "money is the root of all evil".

 

[Billm]

I use to shoot competitive events in rifle, pistol and archery. I have four Oregon State titles and several more individual event wins at the state level. Politics within the organizations and cheating is what drove me away from competitive shooting..., forever.

When money is involved, cheating ALWAYS happens. No truer statement than, "money is the root of all evil".

I’m not accusing anyone of cheating, I just think AOA should enforce their rules. Twenty years of organizing and holding RC races, I’ve seen a lot when it comes to competition LOL. I mentioned transparency, because they don’t share how their entries are allocated, who’s on the waitlist and how the waitlist is handled.

 

[AirgunsofAZ]

Thank you for your interest in our rules and regulations regarding Extreme Benchrest. Sportsman’s Class is meant to be “non-pro,” meaning for non-professional shooters. This relies on persons entering the event to declare or self-elect as professional shooters. What is a “Pro”? Someone who has previously won or made podium at EBR, or works in the industry and is considered to have a skill set beyond Sportsman's class.


Being on a team should be declared, but everyone is seemingly on a team now (something new compared to five years ago), and teams don’t make professionals. Many teams are formed with some shirt orders and handshakes, which is a good thing at the end of the day because that is what it is all about: making friends, collaborating, and encouraging one another. But wearing a shirt with a team logo doesn’t mean you belong in one class or another, and it doesn’t mean you will win either. Additionally, many shooters wear team shirts and manufacturers’ shirts because they were given for free and they are fun to wear. In fact, we give many shirts away during the event, many of them bearing the logos of different brands. The same is true with hats. But that does not mean you are directly associated with that team, manufacturer, and so on.


Sportsman’s Class was won by a Junior this year. For whichever teams registered without declaring that they are on a professional team, next year they should be more honest and clearly declare it. As for 2026, whoever did enter has to reconcile with the fact that their team was beaten by a Junior—which goes to show that merit comes first above all at EBR. It is people, not logos, that win EBR. The Sportsman vs. Pro Class is an important distinction, but self-reporting, honesty, and often a bit of humility are why persons select Sportsman vs. Pro.


Regards

 

[Billm]

Thank you for your interest in our rules and regulations regarding Extreme Benchrest. Sportsman’s Class is meant to be “non-pro,” meaning for non-professional shooters. This relies on persons entering the event to declare or self-elect as professional shooters. What is a “Pro”? Someone who has previously won or made podium at EBR, or works in the industry and is considered to have a skill set beyond Sportsman's class.


Being on a team should be declared, but everyone is seemingly on a team now (something new compared to five years ago), and teams don’t make professionals. Many teams are formed with some shirt orders and handshakes, which is a good thing at the end of the day because that is what it is all about: making friends, collaborating, and encouraging one another. But wearing a shirt with a team logo doesn’t mean you belong in one class or another, and it doesn’t mean you will win either. Additionally, many shooters wear team shirts and manufacturers’ shirts because they were given for free and they are fun to wear. In fact, we give many shirts away during the event, many of them bearing the logos of different brands. The same is true with hats. But that does not mean you are directly associated with that team, manufacturer, and so on.


Sportsman’s Class was won by a Junior this year. For whichever teams registered without declaring that they are on a professional team, next year they should be more honest and clearly declare it. As for 2026, whoever did enter has to reconcile with the fact that their team was beaten by a Junior—which goes to show that merit comes first above all at EBR. It is people, not logos, that win EBR. The Sportsman vs. Pro Class is an important distinction, but self-reporting, honesty, and often a bit of humility are why persons select Sportsman vs. Pro.


Regards

AOA has some responsibility for who is allowed to compete as a Sportsman, it’s your match, your rules and now you’re saying it’s all based upon personal integrity and not to be policed by the match officials. Congratulations to the 2026 4th place Sportsman winner . I’m sure it feels good, but not quite as good as standing on the 1st place podium as the 2025 EBR Big Bore OEM winners after shooting 2 560yd hits. Not to mention that he’s the engineer at RTI. Is that really fair to the weekend airgunner that manages to make it into EBR in the Sportsman class.
Are you really trying to say the teams are full of mediocre shots? I don’t believe I mentioned anyone’s shirts. Sponsorship = associated.

• Pro Class – Any person associated with any company, promoter or manufacturer of airguns or airgun accessories. Also, any competitor who has placed higher than 3rd in any EBR BR competition. Also, any person who wishes to declare themselves as a Pro Class Shooter may do so.

Rules are only as good as the effort to enforce them. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the fact that an engineer from a top Airgun manufacturer who who won the previous years long-range EBR event is allowed to compete as a Sportsman and not a Pro.
I’m sure I’m not the only one that would like to hear what Rob has to say about this.

 

[Ezana4CE]

AOA has some responsibility for who is allowed to compete as a Sportsman, it’s your match, your rules and now you’re saying it’s all based upon personal integrity and not to be policed by the match officials. Congratulations to the 2026 4th place Sportsman winner . I’m sure it feels good, but not quite as good as standing on the 1st place podium as the 2025 EBR Big Bore OEM winners after shooting 2 560yd hits. Not to mention that he’s the engineer at RTI. Is that really fair to the weekend airgunner that manages to make it into EBR in the Sportsman class.
Are you really trying to say the teams are full of mediocre shots? I don’t believe I mentioned anyone’s shirts. Sponsorship = associated.

• Pro Class – Any person associated with any company, promoter or manufacturer of airguns or airgun accessories. Also, any competitor who has placed higher than 3rd in any EBR BR competition. Also, any person who wishes to declare themselves as a Pro Class Shooter may do so.

Rules are only as good as the effort to enforce them. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the fact that an engineer from a top Airgun manufacturer who who won the previous years long-range EBR event is allowed to compete as a Sportsman and not a Pro.
I’m sure I’m not the only one that would like to hear what Rob has to say about this.

I’d have to agree. The match director and facilitators have a duty to enforce their rules. Otherwise, why even have rules? To be lackadaisical in enforcement when there are entry fees, travel expenses, and cash prizes on the line is very disheartening. I’m. It a competitor, but toyed with the idea of possibly competing. After hearing several stories from title holders, competitors, facilitators, etc I wouldn’t waste my time or money going to compete unless it was a small friendly event. EBR isn’t that.

I’m not accusing anyone of cheating, I just think AOA should enforce their rules. Twenty years of organizing and holding RC races, I’ve seen a lot when it comes to competition LOL. I mentioned transparency, because they don’t share how their entries are allocated, who’s on the waitlist and how the waitlist is handled.

Maybe we have different definitions of the term cheating. To willfully or blatantly disregard the rules to gain an advantage in a competition is cheating. That’s how I understand the term. Now here’s how Webster’s dictionary defines cheating:

Let’s talk about honesty. Did the RTI engineer know he competed in 2025 Big Bore OEM and won? Did he read the rules before entering this year? Did he sign something physically or online stating that he understood the terms of the 2026 EBR competition? Of the answer to any of these questions is “yes.” I’m saying that it sounds like the man cheated by the Webster’s dictionary definition of the word.

 

[Billm]

I’d have to agree. The match director and facilitators have a duty to enforce their rules? Otherwise, why even have rules. To be lackadaisical in enforcement when there are entry fees, travel expenses, and cash prizes on the line is very disheartening. I’m. It a competitor, but toyed with the idea of possibly competing. After hearing several stories from title holders, competitors, facilitators, etc I wouldn’t waste my time or money going to compete unless it was a small friendly event. EBR isn’t that.

Maybe we have different definitions of the term cheating. To willfully or blatantly disregard the rules to gain an advantage in a competition is cheating. That’s how I understand the term. Now here’s how Webster’s dictionary defines cheating:
View attachment 23757
Let’s talk about honesty. Did the RTI engineer know he competed in 2025 Big Bore OEM and won? Did he read the rules before entering this year? Did he sign something physically or online stating that he understood the terms of the 2026 EBR competition? Of the answer to any of these questions is “yes.” I’m saying that it sounds like the man cheated by the Webster’s dictionary definition of the word.

Well, that’s another EBR blunder isn’t it LOL. 2025 EBR Big Bore OEM class: two different photos of the podium. One has two winners ( yes 2 first place winners) and one has a single first place winner. Was there an uncontested tie? No, they said one shooter was not a registered shooter and was just shooting in an unfilled slot and so there was one winner. Shortly thereafter it was determined that he was a registered entrant. So you are holding one of the most prestigious airgun events in the U.S. and by the time arrives to hand out awards, you don’t know who is registered and who is not? I’m totally flummoxed by all of this. Do they allow non-registered shooters to shoot during the finals in a match?

 

[Linehauler73]

Maybe they could just start registering scores and kick people out of the sportsman class that average scores above some point x over a pre determined number of the big events.

 

[Ezana4CE]

Maybe they could just start registering scores and kick people out of the sportsman class that average scores above some point x over a pre determined number of the big events.

That’s not a bad idea. Like having a threshold based upon past performances. Or maybe having a category for first timers like “Novice.” Even still, I think rules should be enforced in other classes to maintain the integrity of the event over all.

 

[Solo1]

What they should do is have a separate shoot entirely 1 for pro and 1 for the masses that way you would have your big group of pro’s and a big group of regular guys. They would probably sell more guns in the process

 

[Billm]

That’s not a bad idea. Like having a threshold based upon past performances. Or maybe having a category for first timers like “Novice.” Even still, I think rules should be enforced in other classes to maintain the integrity of the event over all.

The integrity of the event is what is at risk.

What they should do is have a separate shoot entirely 1 for pro and 1 for the masses that way you would have your big group of pro’s and a big group of regular guys. They would probably sell more guns in the process

I like that idea. I know it’s a lot of work to put on an event of this caliber. But, they must be making some money from it. I was really hoping IPAC would become a winter event in the Southeast. But, either way a second event for amateurs would be awesome.