250Z 250z - Working On It!

[Dogowski]

Had an unusually beautiful day yesterday and took advantage and painted the 250z. I am glad at this point that I did not get the factory camo stock because I probably wouldn't have bothered. It was worth bothering. Rattle-canning it I got to get rid of the aweful looking all-black stock and the barrel has a really cool bruised camo look that I won't have to wrap in a ton of ace-bandaid camo tape. The paint can said, that on plastic, it takes 5-7 days to fully cure so it will be a while before I put it back together.

a bad pic of the barel:
View attachment 10328

The free magazine that Barra sent me arrived today and it is the wrong size. They sent me a .25, but it is more convoluted than what you might think. The packaging on the magazine says ".22/6.35mm." I know that the people reading this are airgunners, and will say, "Huh?", as did I. I told Barra, when they told me that they were sending me a .22/6.35mm magazine, that it didn't make any sense because .22 is 5.5mm and .25 is 6.35mm, so why does the item read .22/6.35mm? They chose not to reply to that question and I got a .25 cal magazine. What can I say, it was a freebie, but it is a strange mistake, especially to have printed out that label, any airgunner would have instantly recognized it as being incorrect. (I will edit and attach a picture in a moment.) All this to say, if you order a magazine from them, be sure to call them and tell them to check them because they are marked incorrectly.

View attachment 10327

For those that forgot, I bought a .22 from them. The magazine in the picture is a .25.

Well that sucks on getting the wrong mag. Frustrating when things like this happen. I thought they only happen to me!

 

[MountainSportAirguns]

Well that sucks on getting the wrong mag. Frustrating when things like this happen. I thought they only happen to me!

Nothing beats being sent a loaded gun, and NO it wasn't from Barra.

 

[Pumacarl]

Nothing beats being sent a loaded gun, and NO it wasn't from Barra.

If it didn't fire in shipping, you know the safety works! That's a win actually, for everybody involved getting it to your door. If the safety wasn't on, you know the trigger is not going to go off by itself either. Your story has a silver lining actually, it's bad, but ended well.

I just want Barra to succeed, but they have to step up their game a little. Quality control is everything when starting out.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

If it didn't fire in shipping, you know the safety works! That's a win actually.

Was the safety on? I guess lucky there was not a string tied to the trigger so when you opened the box it fired .. lol ( like a hitman thing )

 

[Danman]

Nothing beats being sent a loaded gun, and NO it wasn't from Barra.

Now THATS customer service!?

 

[Dogowski]

Nothing beats being sent a loaded gun, and NO it wasn't from Barra.

Now that's scary!

 

[Pumacarl]

With the issues that keep popping up, I am starting to sound like PasadenaMike, and his string of bad luck with some of his purchases. I just found out the pic rail does not maintain spec through the magazine cutout, not good. The picture I had with a scope on above, the scope was not tightened down thankfully. The other problem I had was with the paint I used on the camo job, which actually looked great, but one of the colors was bad paint and it isn't going to last (the darkest). At least the gun really looks good.

 

[pan60]

for most the pic rail would be a non issue on a gun in this price range because they will put one scope on and done.

now I am back to thinking about just how much I want a tripod LOL
the gun does look nice : )

 

[Pumacarl]

for most the pic rail would be a non issue on a gun in this price range because they will put one scope on and done.

now I am back to thinking about just how much I want a tripod LOL
the gun does look nice : )

Thanks! I hope this thing shoots as good as it looks. I can forgive quite a bit if it is actually super accurate.

 

[Danman]

With the issues that keep popping up, I am starting to sound like PasadenaMike, and his string of bad luck with some of his purchases. I just found out the pic rail does not maintain spec through the magazine cutout, not good. The picture I had with a scope on above, the scope was not tightened down thankfully. The other problem I had was with the paint I used on the camo job, which actually looked great, but one of the colors was bad paint and it isn't going to last (the darkest). At least the gun really looks good.

View attachment 10358

Well that looks substantially better than that commercial grade stock u started out with. I'm absolutely loving your build and thread! I've been looking to mount my Ghost on my bog deathgrip tripod and I cannot find a blooming thing, everything is camera/arca not picatinny? Hopefully it's a good shooter for you!

 

[Pumacarl]

Well that looks substantially better than that commercial grade stock u started out with. I'm absolutely loving your build and thread! I've been looking to mount my Ghost on my bog deathgrip tripod and I cannot find a blooming thing, everything is camera/arca not picatinny? Hopefully it's a good shooter!

Thanks! Your Ghost deserves a beast of a tripod, like this one, the Bog looks like a toy next to it. I was supposed to post a picture of them side by side and I forgot to. I will try to do that after the holidays. Too much going on right now.

 

[Dogowski]

With the issues that keep popping up, I am starting to sound like PasadenaMike, and his string of bad luck with some of his purchases. I just found out the pic rail does not maintain spec through the magazine cutout, not good. The picture I had with a scope on above, the scope was not tightened down thankfully. The other problem I had was with the paint I used on the camo job, which actually looked great, but one of the colors was bad paint and it isn't going to last (the darkest). At least the gun really looks good.

View attachment 10358

Nice color mix that came out great. I'm really liking what you have done so far!

 

[Pumacarl]

Well I didn't hear from anybody in the other thread, so I did go in blind. I had Gile's video up on my computer while I worked, it helped but there are a few differences between this iteration and the M30c. First off there is the picatinny rail. I wasn't certain how this worked, but it turned out I guessed correctly. The only thing holding it on is the rear screw and the screw to the band in the front, -so not much. The screws up top are different from the M30c in that the degassing screw is a set screw in the 250z and the screw that holds the thimble doesn't come down from the top, that holds the rail in the 250z, the thimble screw comes in from the side and you really have to take off the rail cover to get to it. Here is what it looks like from underneath:

That bright metal sleeve, all the way to the right in the above picture on the underside of the rail, is not connected. Don't lose it, that is what prevents the whole thing from spinning on top of the gun.

Taking the barrel off was easy, as the piece it goes through unscrewed right out of the receiver. Getting the barrel out of that piece was extremely difficult and I resorted to all kinds of things you shouldn't do. I did ding up the piece a little, but I finally found something that worked, after I utilized clampling in a vise. Which I really id not want to do, but had to. Good strap wrenches finally did it, I don't know if the heat was needed, but probably. Here is the piece I'm talking about, notice all the grease they had on the barrel:

That thing was slippery, with nothing to aid purchase, a real bear to get out of that tube! The barrel itself unscrewed out of that unit quite nicely. I must say, that I am really impressed with the build, and how it's done. The breech of the barrel is a little thin, to go into the nipple but iin there that doesn't really matter. Everything feels really solid. When I screwed all those parts back onto the barrel and receiver I used Ultimox 226 so they wouldn't stick next time.

Now the breech:

Very hard to take pics of this stuff. Trying to push a slug into that was noticeable. So I made this:


These are hard to make, they break easy, it took me an hour to shape this one. It lasted about 6 seconds in use, long enough to do some good. I made another, this time fine. Very little time is actually spent runing these, just seconds. Cratex bits are awesome. Reamed out:

Yeah I know, lousy picture, my brother already told me. Anyway you get the idea. It loads smoothly now!

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Well I didn't hear from anybody in the other thread, so I did go in blind. I had Gile's video up on my computer while I worked, it helped but there are a few differences between this iteration and the M30c. First off there is the picatinny rail. I wasn't certain how this worked, but it turned out I guessed correctly. The only thing holding it on is the rear screw and the screw to the band in the front, -so not much. The screws up top are different from the M30c in that the degassing screw is a set screw in the 250z and the screw that holds the thimble doesn't come down from the top, that holds the rail in the 250z, the thimble screw comes in from the side and you really have to take off the rail cover to get to it. Here is what it looks like from underneath:
View attachment 10525

Taking the barrel off was easy, as the piece it goes through unscrewed right out of the receiver. Getting the barrel out of that piece was extremely difficult and I resorted to all kinds of things you shouldn't do. I did ding up the piece a little, but I finally found something that worked, after I utilized clampling in a vise. Which I really id not want to do, but had to. Good strap wrenches finally did it, I don't know if the heat was needed, but probably. Here is the piece I'm talking about, notice all the grease they had on the barrel:
View attachment 10526
That thing was slippery, with nothing to aid purchase, a real bear to get out of that tube! The barrel itself unscrewed out of that unit quite nicely. I must say, that I am really impressed with the build, and how it's done. The breech of the barrel is a little thin, to go into the nipple but iin there that doesn't really matter. Everything feels really solid. When I screwed all those parts back onto the barrel and receiver I used Ultimox 226 so they wouldn't stick next time.

Now the breech:
View attachment 10527
Very hard to take pics of this stuff. Trying to push a slug into that was noticeable. So I made this:

View attachment 10528
These are hard to make, they brake easy, it took me an hour to shape this one. It lasted about 6 seconds in use, long enough to do some good. I made another, this time fine. Very little time is actually spent runing these, just seconds. Cratex bits are awesome. Reamed out:
View attachment 10529
Yeah I know, lousy picture, my brother already told me. Anyway you get the idea. It loads smoothly now!

Looks good pics are fine .

Try a pencil eraser and compound . I use it to "fix" leade holes in my springers if not so round smooth or a nicer taper to load .

I got pictures on my old phone on using my hr pencil .. lol oh well .

 

[Pumacarl]

So now, instead of the slug being scored while loading, it gets squeezed into shape on firing, moving down the barrel. I think that process cost me some velocity, around 25fps. All a guess on my part, I just can't think of any other reason. This caused me to play with the regulator and I had to move it up 10 bar to get back to where I was. The hammerspring was not able to give me anything. I really don't like being at 170bar. I like running regs between 150-160bars, because I think they run really well there, when they have something to do. I don't like going higher because it chews into shot count. If I want any more out of this gun I will have to open the port on the thimble. I forgot to take a picture of that, but it is an awefully small port.

I went into this not wanting to shoot anything heavier than 21gr slugs, so I opted to leave it. However, I did shoot at targets for the first time today and might have to also try 23gr slugs, so I might be opening that port after all. I did not get the accuracy I wanted, but i did not change anything either. This was a get the scope sighted in to start testing kind of thing, -in the rain. I will try some H&N 21gr tomorrow and see how they do too. This might take a while to figure out. It might be the suppressor too, I will try others. I will update this thread when I have figured out what this gun wants to run.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Maybe try a deeper dish bottom slug . I think it would help you expand and seal better

Extreme example . Kinda real deep more pellets skirt sealing action

Griffin Slugs .22 Caliber .217" Tapered Hollow Base 21 Grain 200 ct.

Air gun slugs, .22 cal. air gun slugs, Griffin airgun ammo, hunting slugs, air gun ammo, .22 cal match slugs

griffinairguns.com

 

[Dogowski]

Well I didn't hear from anybody in the other thread, so I did go in blind. I had Gile's video up on my computer while I worked, it helped but there are a few differences between this iteration and the M30c. First off there is the picatinny rail. I wasn't certain how this worked, but it turned out I guessed correctly. The only thing holding it on is the rear screw and the screw to the band in the front, -so not much. The screws up top are different from the M30c in that the degassing screw is a set screw in the 250z and the screw that holds the thimble doesn't come down from the top, that holds the rail in the 250z, the thimble screw comes in from the side and you really have to take off the rail cover to get to it. Here is what it looks like from underneath:
View attachment 10525

Taking the barrel off was easy, as the piece it goes through unscrewed right out of the receiver. Getting the barrel out of that piece was extremely difficult and I resorted to all kinds of things you shouldn't do. I did ding up the piece a little, but I finally found something that worked, after I utilized clampling in a vise. Which I really id not want to do, but had to. Good strap wrenches finally did it, I don't know if the heat was needed, but probably. Here is the piece I'm talking about, notice all the grease they had on the barrel:
View attachment 10526
That thing was slippery, with nothing to aid purchase, a real bear to get out of that tube! The barrel itself unscrewed out of that unit quite nicely. I must say, that I am really impressed with the build, and how it's done. The breech of the barrel is a little thin, to go into the nipple but iin there that doesn't really matter. Everything feels really solid. When I screwed all those parts back onto the barrel and receiver I used Ultimox 226 so they wouldn't stick next time.

Now the breech:
View attachment 10527
Very hard to take pics of this stuff. Trying to push a slug into that was noticeable. So I made this:

View attachment 10528
These are hard to make, they brake easy, it took me an hour to shape this one. It lasted about 6 seconds in use, long enough to do some good. I made another, this time fine. Very little time is actually spent runing these, just seconds. Cratex bits are awesome. Reamed out:
View attachment 10529
Yeah I know, lousy picture, my brother already told me. Anyway you get the idea. It loads smoothly now!

L

Well I didn't hear from anybody in the other thread, so I did go in blind. I had Gile's video up on my computer while I worked, it helped but there are a few differences between this iteration and the M30c. First off there is the picatinny rail. I wasn't certain how this worked, but it turned out I guessed correctly. The only thing holding it on is the rear screw and the screw to the band in the front, -so not much. The screws up top are different from the M30c in that the degassing screw is a set screw in the 250z and the screw that holds the thimble doesn't come down from the top, that holds the rail in the 250z, the thimble screw comes in from the side and you really have to take off the rail cover to get to it. Here is what it looks like from underneath:
View attachment 10525

Taking the barrel off was easy, as the piece it goes through unscrewed right out of the receiver. Getting the barrel out of that piece was extremely difficult and I resorted to all kinds of things you shouldn't do. I did ding up the piece a little, but I finally found something that worked, after I utilized clampling in a vise. Which I really id not want to do, but had to. Good strap wrenches finally did it, I don't know if the heat was needed, but probably. Here is the piece I'm talking about, notice all the grease they had on the barrel:
View attachment 10526
That thing was slippery, with nothing to aid purchase, a real bear to get out of that tube! The barrel itself unscrewed out of that unit quite nicely. I must say, that I am really impressed with the build, and how it's done. The breech of the barrel is a little thin, to go into the nipple but iin there that doesn't really matter. Everything feels really solid. When I screwed all those parts back onto the barrel and receiver I used Ultimox 226 so they wouldn't stick next time.

Now the breech:
View attachment 10527
Very hard to take pics of this stuff. Trying to push a slug into that was noticeable. So I made this:

View attachment 10528
These are hard to make, they brake easy, it took me an hour to shape this one. It lasted about 6 seconds in use, long enough to do some good. I made another, this time fine. Very little time is actually spent runing these, just seconds. Cratex bits are awesome. Reamed out:
View attachment 10529
Yeah I know, lousy picture, my brother already told me. Anyway you get the idea. It loads smoothly now!

Looking good and came out fine it looks like. You've got a nice steady hand! I can see the pics ok as well.

 

[Pumacarl]

I shot some 21gr H&N's and they seemed to be shooting higher than the NSA 20.2gr, I think their bc might be better by a little.

So, I decided to take it back apart tonight and I did open the thimble port from 4mm to 4.3mm(11/64"). I brought the reg back down to where it was before, 160bar, and I maintained my speed. So that .3mm allowed me to set my reg down 10bar, I'll take it. I cleaned the barrel again, while it was apart, and tried to take a picture of the breech again. I'm done with trying to do that. It all went really well tonight, now that i know what I'm doing.

I absolutely love the bag rider I made! The STO Levitas, at only 2oz is perfect for this thing too.

Here's some pics:


The port, before and after, barely noticeable:




I need to work on shooting, more than anything else, at this point.

 

[Pumacarl]

A little update, I am still working on it, I just haven't been able to get out to shoot lately. It doesn't look good for the next 10 days either, -winter! It seems like most are in the same boat because there hasn't been too many data posts lately so I will do a boring one for people who want to read something.

I do have the ammo ready to go and have been doing inside chrono work. The only pellet I'm going to check out is the AEA 21.9gr since it has such a high b.c., everything else are slugs. I am leaving the reg at 2300psi for the first groups and if I don't get any outstanding results I'll try again at 2500psi and turn up the hs a little. The most that I will push this gun, is to get the 23gr NSA up to 950fps. I am biased to NSA, in general, and this weight, in paticular. I think that this is the sweet spot for power and price. It would not surprise me at all if the FX turned out being the most accurate though, because they require often cleanings and cost the most on this list. Seems to be how things go in airgunning. The dark horse is the pellet, it would have to equal the best slug at 125y for me to use them at all.

This is mostly going to be used for long range plinking, so groups not falling apart out to 200y is kind of what I'm going for. Maintaining 2moa, 4" groups, at 200y would be plenty of fun for me.

The other variable is the moderator, which I have not checked at all yet. I usually don't see much if any difference in my groups because I always upsize anyways. The 250z is not a direct thread onto the barrel so it might have an effect.

I didn't get any ZAN slugs yet, so if none of these play nice, I will try some of those. I like ZAN and use their slug in my P15 .25, but at their cost to iffy availability, I tend to try them last.

I don't mind spending big money to play, but I don't like throwing it away either, the FX/RMR slugs are close, but the Altaros and the Griffins certainly cross the line. Unless I was trying to win a competition, or some rodent caused my house to burn down, I won't be spending the money on either of those.


The Roster, so far:
NSA 20.2gr .2175 985fps 43.5fpe
NSA 20.2gr .218 975fps 42.3fpe
NSA 23gr .217 928fps 44fpe
H&N 21gr .218 970fps 43.9fpe
H&N 25gr .218 909fps 45.8fpe
FX 22gr .217 928fps 42.1fpe
AEA 21.9gr pellet 968fps 45.6fpe
JSB 18.13gr 1027fps 42.5fpe (for reference)

 

[Pumacarl]

Today was not the day to shoot, so having missed my window, I decided to jump the gun and turn the power up to the highest I would want to have it. Being that I only want 20 shots a fill, I only need around 1100psi for that, so I put the reg back to being just shy of 2500psi/170bar. This got the 23gr NSA to 950fps, and holding to what happened before, the FX Hybrids shot the exact same speed also, so +22fps each. It's good to know associations like this. The FX Hybrids shoot just about exactly 100fps slower than the JSB 18.13gr pellets too. The NSA 20.2gr .2175, and the AEA 21.9gr pellets only gained 10fps, so 995, 978 respectively.

I ran the numbers through Strelok Pro and the 23gr NSA and the FX, have just about the same drop numbers going out to 200y. I can't wait to get out and actually test these numbers out.

Whichever one the gun likes, the gun gets, accuracy trumps all.

edit: I got the b.c. numbers wrong for the AEA pellet, it is actually .06, not .07, that changed things enough that I deleted my comments on those. The new numbers don't surprise me, they make sense.