2 air rifles: best and most value priced for coyotes

[Grunt64]

just a reminder please keep it civil : )

Understood. I’m keeping it civil. I was only stating the published velocity ranges for .22 LR — nothing more, nothing less. I wasn’t arguing with anyone, just correcting the numbers so the thread stays accurate.

 

[pan60]

Understood. I’m keeping it civil. I was only stating the published velocity ranges for .22 LR — nothing more, nothing less. I wasn’t arguing with anyone, just correcting the numbers so the thread stays accurate.

just dont want things going south : )

 

[Cantona256]

30 cal ghost will give similar fpe.

At the muzzle yes “up to 100fpe” at the muzzle is similar to .22 subsonic no doubt.

But since pretty much everyone agrees that .22LR is the NOT the tool for the job I till think this comparison is tenuous at best.

I realize that they have some really big fans but let’s be real it’s not a coyote gun.

 

[Cantona256]

For clarity, here are published manufacturer and lab‑tested .22 LR velocity charts. CCI lists their Standard Velocity at 1,070 fps, Mini‑Mag at 1,235 fps, and Stinger at 1,640 fps (cci-ammunition.com). Federal publishes their .22 LR loads at 1,080–1,240 fps depending on type (federalpremium.com). Winchester shows their Subsonic HP at 1,065 fps and Super‑X HV at 1,280 fps (winchester.com). Independent chronograph testing from Ballistics By The Inch shows Mini‑Mag around 1,250 fps and Stinger around 1,510 fps from an 18-inch barrel (ballisticsbytheinch.com). These published numbers confirm exactly what I said earlier: standard .22 LR runs roughly 1050–1150 fps, subsonic sits below that, and 1300+ fps is the top end of high‑velocity loads — not the starting point.

Yes I’m aware. But you missed my point. Equating BRK ghost to a .22LR is ludicrous.

Also the BCs on .22LR are so low if you’re not using the very top end of the factory loads then your effective range is like 100y max

Let’s look a a ballistic chart real quick

Winchester 37gr Varmint HE… 1435fps and 169fpe at the muzzle

83fpe at 100y and 57fpe at 200y.

For perspective my karma is doing 116fpe at 100y and 93fpe at 200y.

We can nitpick over specifics but lets be real this ain’t the tool for the job and a PELLET shooter putting up much weaker power numbers ain’t the one either. That’s why I’m going so hard on Daystate and BRK… some people around here seem to think that a $3000 pellet gun is the answer to all of life’s Airgun questions and it drives me crazy.

 

[Cantona256]

Understood. I’m keeping it civil. I was only stating the published velocity ranges for .22 LR — nothing more, nothing less. I wasn’t arguing with anyone, just correcting the numbers so the thread stays accurate.

No issues here. @Grunt64 is one of the good ones…. And he’s right in this case. I’m just making case that guns on the lower end of .22LR power shouldn’t even be in the discussion cuz it’s just not enough.

 

[CoyoteHammer]

A .30 body shot is good for eradicating (my main goal) coyotes…not so good for retrieving them unless you have good shot placement (head, neck, spine). When I started hunting coyotes with a .30 I was going for heart/lung shots and never retrieved them. I usually find them in the springtime mummified in the tall grass!

I hunt on private property that was overrun by coyotes for many years. The locals said they hardly see any large bucks (very lucky if you saw an 8 pointer), low doe count, hardly any turkeys for years. So we went berserk on them for ~3 years and now everyone is seeing/hunting larger bucks, way more does, and the turkey population exploded. The locals are so elated that they wanted to chip in and provide ammo! What an incredible experience to see what happens when you help manage mother nature

 

[Dogowski]

U2 700mm .30 shooting 62.5gr AVS .3063 at ~890 for 110fpe

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Excellent footage brother that's very clear of your conquest! Very nice.

 

[Dogowski]

Unless you’re hunting them at less than 100y don’t go less than .30 cal… and for the love of god don’t waste your money on a Daystate or a BRK.. you want a slug shooter for this job not a pellet shooter. Get one of those and you’re gonna spend $2k for a pretty gun that won’t get the job done past 100y…

Why slugs…short answer is BC… the best pellet you can find is gonna top out at like .05BC… they bleed energy, more susceptible to wind and pellets don’t expand reliably.

Also don’t let the bougie gun fan boys sell you on a fancy gun. Unless you’re sitting in your backyard or somewhere more suburban a finicky $2000 British gun is not the move.

I also wouldn’t buy a new FX. Get a used one in the classifieds here that has been tuned and set up for slugs already. FX guns are nice but I almost never see a “stock” fx gun. People tend to buy them and instantly drop a bunch of cash for a bunch of airmarksman or Sabre tactical furniture.

No offense to the Daystate/BRK fans but frankly that’s terrible advice. Dude said he knows nothing about airguns and he wants to shoot coyotes. lol a very expensive gun not known for anything other than target shooting and small game hunting is not the way to go. Bro isn’t trying to show his buddies at the Elks club his new “heirloom quality” laminate stock. Get a grip.

Coyote in the Midwest and east at big. You need stopping power. The ones out west are not big but very highly pressured and you’re not likely to get them to come in to pellet range on a reliable basis.

I’m using a Karma EQ that I’ve massively modified. It’s a purpose built coyote gun. This isn’t the route I would suggest to most. I’m going out to the sage brush and doing traditional western coyote calling. Last one I called in wouldn’t come in closer than 280y… there’s not a pellet shooter on earth and few Airguns not named Air Force that’s gonna make that shot.

If you’re looking for an easy, simple, powerful and RUGGED platform the only real answer here is Air Force. They’re simple, the big bores get firearm levels of power. I know people take coyote with .308 Texas at 300y.

If unregulated isn’t your thing see if you can pick up a used .30cal Gauntlet that’s been tuned for heavy slugs.

If you wanna spend some cash on a “top tier” gun get a Western Sidewinder or something like that. They have their issues too but at least you can get a .357 or .45 cal and go semi/full auto with some big @ss slugs.

Slug selection is gonna be almost as important as the gun choice. Higher BC for more power and range of course. But expansion is your friend here. You’re not shooting deer pass-through is not your friend. Coyotes are tough and even if they’re gonna die if you let them run you’re gonna have major problems finding it. They don’t gush blood like bigger game. There’s a reason the 55gr Vmax is so popular and it’s not just because it shoots flat.

A slug that passes through means that you left energy on the table. A slug that doesn’t has dumped all the energy into the target. When you’re working with 100-200fpe you want all of that in the dog. Bare minimum it’ll knock it down long enough for a follow up if you need.

I don’t claim to be an expert at this. I’m still not great at calling them in but I have been successful and frankly it’s all I do now. Every weekend I’m out calling by myself or with mixed group of air gunners and powder burners.


Good luck and happy hunting.

Karma EQ 30 cals are still out of stock everywhere and I can't find a used one on the forums that they don't want the new price for! I'll keep looking.

 

[Cantona256]

I hit him mid thoracic spine and immediately paralyzed him. Noob moment…I shot him with my last (unknowingly) slug in the magazine and had to reload for the final shot.

My brother had an M3 for several years and I thoroughly enjoyed it with the exception of the wandering poi. I was able to tune out the first slow shots for him but when it comes to hunting, you need a barrel that stays put! It just wasn’t reliable enough for our hunting needs. The M3 ALWAYS had me guessing if I was going to put the shot on target, that lack of confidence in a +$2k rifle had me looking elsewhere.

YUPPPP… that’s why when I started planning my karma build I never considered doing an FX barrel swap. I don’t do barrel liners and the whole harmonic dampener crap.

I took a Lothar barrel blank. Machined only what I needed to fit it into the block so by Airgun standards it’s practically a bull barrel…

AND

Then added a cf shroud/tensioner that adds even more rigidity to the barrel. It is SOLID. I hike through way too much rough country and spend way too much time in bouncy trucks on dirt roads to be dealing with some flimsy barrel that will keep me guessing. At this point if slug doesn’t go when I want it to it’s because I suck and not because the poi has shifted.


Perfect example in this pic… I was going some plinking at 270y last weekend and this was the very first shot, cold bore, off of a very cheap Amazon tripod.

The picture with my finger is for reference… and I have small hands haha.

 

[Cantona256]

And I’ll add this , I agree very strongly with you Chief55 on the AEA pressure issue. That’s exactly why I keep mine in the 3200–3300 PSI range. The way I’ve modified my AEA is all about making it breathe better, not beating it with pressure. With the flow opened up and the valve working efficiently, I’m pushing a 150gr at 1000 fps without ever going near 3600 PSI. It runs smoother, more consistent, and I’m not stressing the gun every cycle. That’s where these rifles shine — efficiency, not over‑pressure.

Sorry but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the bottle pressure. You opened up the block which is basically like adding a plenum. More volume=more mass=more power and thus you can drop the pressure to get the same results you used to get at a higher pressure.

The only part of the (in a regulated gun) that sees 4500psi is the bottle and the regulator.
The internals never see that pressure so unless you’re setting your reg above 3600psi it’s a moot point.

I’m not as well versed in unregulated guns but I’m pretty sure the second you open the valve there is a pressure drop at the valve. In fact the theoretical max fpe of an airgun is directly related to the amount of pressure drop when the valve is opened.

So with a regulated gun the only thing you’re really doing is limiting your shot count.

 

[CoyoteHammer]

That’s why we all switched to AGT. Thick barrels secured by 8 bolts. The M3 had 1 set screw . Again, it was an awesome shooter after 1 year of my time and a lot of slugs, trial and error, research….the list goes on and on. But in the end I learned A LOT from that platform and it helped me fully understand how a pcp works. It just wasn’t the right gun for my hunting needs.

Everything I’ve read most people don’t get great results with barrel blanks but you’ve got it figured out. Nice cold shot man and kudos to your machining skills

 

[Grunt64]

Sorry but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the bottle pressure. You opened up the block which is basically like adding a plenum. More volume=more mass=more power and thus you can drop the pressure to get the same results you used to get at a higher pressure.

The only part of the (in a regulated gun) that sees 4500psi is the bottle and the regulator.
The internals never see that pressure so unless you’re setting your reg above 3600psi it’s a moot point.

I’m not as well versed in unregulated guns but I’m pretty sure the second you open the valve there is a pressure drop at the valve. In fact the theoretical max fpe of an airgun is directly related to the amount of pressure drop when the valve is opened.

So with a regulated gun the only thing you’re really doing is limiting your shot count.

You’re right that opening the block adds volume and helps the gun breathe — that’s exactly why I did it. My point wasn’t about bottle pressure or what parts see 4500 psi. It’s simply that AEAs tend to shoot better and run smoother in the 3200–3300 psi range instead of being pushed toward the top of their rating.

Even with the flow opened up, I’m getting 150gr at 1000 fps without needing to run anywhere near 3600 psi. That’s all I meant — efficiency over pressure. It keeps the gun consistent and avoids stressing the system, especially for newer shooters who are still learning how these rifles behave.

 

[Dogowski]

YUPPPP… that’s why when I started planning my karma build I never considered doing an FX barrel swap. I don’t do barrel liners and the whole harmonic dampener crap.

I took a Lothar barrel blank. Machined only what I needed to fit it into the block so by Airgun standards it’s practically a bull barrel…

AND

Then added a cf shroud/tensioner that adds even more rigidity to the barrel. It is SOLID. I hike through way too much rough country and spend way too much time in bouncy trucks on dirt roads to be dealing with some flimsy barrel that will keep me guessing. At this point if slug doesn’t go when I want it to it’s because I suck and not because the poi has shifted.


Perfect example in this pic… I was going some plinking at 270y last weekend and this was the very first shot, cold bore, off of a very cheap Amazon tripod.

The picture with my finger is for reference… and I have small hands haha.

Nice brother that's impressive!

 

[Dogowski]

You’re right that opening the block adds volume and helps the gun breathe — that’s exactly why I did it. My point wasn’t about bottle pressure or what parts see 4500 psi. It’s simply that AEAs tend to shoot better and run smoother in the 3200–3300 psi range instead of being pushed toward the top of their rating.

Even with the flow opened up, I’m getting 150gr at 1000 fps without needing to run anywhere near 3600 psi. That’s all I meant — efficiency over pressure. It keeps the gun consistent and avoids stressing the system, especially for newer shooters who are still learning how these rifles behave.

My AEA 30 caliber Challenger does not shoot well at a full 4350 psi fill. Shots are all over the place. 3400 psi is the rifles happy place for shooting groups or getting any kind of accuracy at all. So now I only fill to 3600 to start and that eliminates the shotgun pattern, lol, that I call it. Then I'm good for two mags of reliable shooting! I don't like AEA airguns very well so I'll never by another after going through this also with an AEA Varmint 25 cal as well. Neither one is regulated by the way and the regulators are too expensive in the first place to buy for such a low tier gun.

 

[Chief55]

Sorry but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the bottle pressure. You opened up the block which is basically like adding a plenum. More volume=more mass=more power and thus you can drop the pressure to get the same results you used to get at a higher pressure.

The only part of the (in a regulated gun) that sees 4500psi is the bottle and the regulator.
The internals never see that pressure so unless you’re setting your reg above 3600psi it’s a moot point.

I’m not as well versed in unregulated guns but I’m pretty sure the second you open the valve there is a pressure drop at the valve. In fact the theoretical max fpe of an airgun is directly related to the amount of pressure drop when the valve is opened.

So with a regulated gun the only thing you’re really doing is limiting your shot count.

Grunt and I were talking about AEA unregulated guns at the time.

Most unregulated guns will not shoot well at the highest pressure. You adjust the pressure to send the projectile at its most accurate speed with a shot curve you are comfortable with like adjusting a reg. The higher pressure can make it more versatile by allowing the use of heavier ammo and or higher speeds. You are basically trying to match what a reg does without the speed and power restrictions that are limited by a regulator in the name of getting extra lower power shots. Regs are all about getting lots of consistently accurate shots and nonregulated is about the max power with accuracy in the first 3-12 shots depending on what you are shooting. For small game and target shooting regulated guns are great. For large game nonregulated guns are great. I personally like nonregulated guns to max out my speed and still be accurate. I don't want my speed and power limited by a reg. That's why most of the regulated .30s only make about 70FPE and a nonregulated .30 will make 100+FPE easily. When I see a gun that will only shoot around 620-820FPS I am not impressed and I am not interested because my guns all shoot great around 950-980. At very close range like 30 yards there isn't much difference, but when you move back to 50+ yards it is nice to have the extra speed for flatter shooting and retaining energy. Everyone is stuck on FPE at the muzzle, but what is important is how many FPE you have when the projectile hits the animal. The second you pull the trigger the projectile is losing speed and energy and by the time it reaches your target it could be really lame. When a person is choosing something for hunting, they should be looking at what it can do at the intended distance they will be trying to harvest the game, not at the muzzle. My point is that depending on your speed the FPE at 100 yards may only be about half of what it was at the muzzle and may not be enough to harvest the game cleanly without just wounding the animal.

 

[Cantona256]

It was an M357 that we were shooting out to 300 yards with 142g NSA slugs at 900fps. We tested a number of NSA slugs in the 3 rifles we took to EBR that year. The 142s ran the best in all 3.

With that said a used Bulldog 357 would have more than enough power to take care of a Coyote at 100 yards.

John

Grunt and I were talking about AEA unregulated guns at the time.

Most unregulated guns will not shoot well at the highest pressure. You adjust the pressure to send the projectile at its most accurate speed with a shot curve you are comfortable with like adjusting a reg. The higher pressure can make it more versatile by allowing the use of heavier ammo and or higher speeds. You are basically trying to match what a reg does without the speed and power restrictions that are limited by a regulator in the name of getting extra lower power shots. Regs are all about getting lots of consistently accurate shots and nonregulated is about the max power with accuracy in the first 3-12 shots depending on what you are shooting. For small game and target shooting regulated guns are great. For large game nonregulated guns are great. I personally like nonregulated guns to max out my speed and still be accurate. I don't want my speed and power limited by a reg. That's why most of the regulated .30s only make about 70FPE and a nonregulated .30 will make 100+FPE easily. When I see a gun that will only shoot around 620-820FPS I am not impressed and I am not interested because my guns all shoot great around 950-980. At very close range like 30 yards there isn't much difference, but when you move back to 50+ yards it is nice to have the extra speed for flatter shooting and retaining energy. Everyone is stuck on FPE at the muzzle, but what is important is how many FPE you have when the projectile hits the animal. The second you pull the trigger the projectile is losing speed and energy and by the time it reaches your target it could be really lame. When a person is choosing something for hunting, they should be looking at what it can do at the intended distance they will be trying to harvest the game, not at the muzzle. My point is that depending on your speed the FPE at 100 yards may only be about half of what it was at the muzzle and may not be enough to harvest the game cleanly without just wounding the animal.

Yeah that makes sense. Like I said I don’t know as much about unregulated so thanks for explaining.

 

[Cantona256]

That’s why we all switched to AGT. Thick barrels secured by 8 bolts. The M3 had 1 set screw . Again, it was an awesome shooter after 1 year of my time and a lot of slugs, trial and error, research….the list goes on and on. But in the end I learned A LOT from that platform and it helped me fully understand how a pcp works. It just wasn’t the right gun for my hunting needs.

Everything I’ve read most people don’t get great results with barrel blanks but you’ve got it figured out. Nice cold shot man and kudos to your machining skills

Thank you bro. Haha it felt like a gamble while I was doing it but the relief of “it works” was incredible.

AGT looks very nice. I haven’t had the pleasure yet but it’s on my list. I bet karma took a page from them with the barrels because theirs are also secured by 8 bolts.

Barrel harmonics are a huge reason my next gun is the Barra 350z… the new 9mm.. I had the 250z and that pressure over the barrel locks it down tough!

 

[Grunt64]

Sorry but that doesn’t really have anything to do with the bottle pressure. You opened up the block which is basically like adding a plenum. More volume=more mass=more power and thus you can drop the pressure to get the same results you used to get at a higher pressure.

The only part of the (in a regulated gun) that sees 4500psi is the bottle and the regulator.
The internals never see that pressure so unless you’re setting your reg above 3600psi it’s a moot point.

I’m not as well versed in unregulated guns but I’m pretty sure the second you open the valve there is a pressure drop at the valve. In fact the theoretical max fpe of an airgun is directly related to the amount of pressure drop when the valve is opened.

So with a regulated gun the only thing you’re really doing is limiting your shot count.

Chief is right, we were talking specifically about unregulated AEAs, and in that setup the bottle pressure absolutely matters because the valve, hammer, and pressure curve are all interacting directly with the supply. There’s no regulator isolating anything, so the gun’s behavior changes across the entire fill. Opening the block isn’t “adding plenum” the way it would be on a regulated gun; it simply reduces restriction and improves flow, which lets the gun run the same speed at a lower starting pressure because the valve isn’t fighting the same bottleneck. That’s why my tune works cleanly at 3200–3300 psi instead of needing 3600+. Regulated logic doesn’t apply here—unregulated AEAs live and die by starting pressure, valve efficiency, hammer strike, and how much pressure drop occurs during the shot. That’s why we tune them to a specific pressure window instead of a fixed reg setpoint. In an unregulated platform, the gun itself is the regulator.

 

[Cantona256]

Chief is right, we were talking specifically about unregulated AEAs, and in that setup the bottle pressure absolutely matters because the valve, hammer, and pressure curve are all interacting directly with the supply. There’s no regulator isolating anything, so the gun’s behavior changes across the entire fill. Opening the block isn’t “adding plenum” the way it would be on a regulated gun; it simply reduces restriction and improves flow, which lets the gun run the same speed at a lower starting pressure because the valve isn’t fighting the same bottleneck. That’s why my tune works cleanly at 3200–3300 psi instead of needing 3600+. Regulated logic doesn’t apply here—unregulated AEAs live and die by starting pressure, valve efficiency, hammer strike, and how much pressure drop occurs during the shot. That’s why we tune them to a specific pressure window instead of a fixed reg setpoint. In an unregulated platform, the gun itself is the regulator.

Yeah I already got it about unregulated guns.

You’re wrong about opening the block though. It’s not a “plenum” per se, yes that part is obvious. But you are 100% adding more volume for the air to travel through. You can call it “removing restrictions” or whatever but The physics is the same…. You’re removing material to allow more air to pass…. More air=more mass=equals more power. The valve isn’t fighting anything when you’re shooting. That’s when it finally gets to release the air it’s been holding back. But it doesn’t provide any impulse or acceleration to the air beyond those imparted from its shape. It’s just a gate not a motor.

Also how is your hammer feeling the pressure? opens the valve from the “low pressure” side of the gun doesnt it?

And the “pressure curve” doesn’t interact with anything. The “pressure curve” is the same as the pressure drop I mentioned in my first comment. It doesn’t interact. It is the RESULT of opening the valve, the starting pressure of the stored air, the volume of air being released (which of course is being directly controlled by the hammer strike) and the temperature of the air itself. Which is why it makes sense that these guns work better in a specific range.

Starting pressure of 4500psi probably creates instability in the amount of air being released because the pressure differential at the valve causes too much pressure drop.

 

[Billm]

This is a video of a Sonoran .30 putting a Javelina down. I would think Javelina are a little tougher body wise than a Coyote. It illustrates that a BRK .30 at 90fpe is adequate when used at the appropriate range.

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