Condor Valve dump of the .177

[Franklink]

I've read in various places that the .177 AirForce guns are valved differently than the larger calibers, specifically to avoid valve dump.

Can the valve dump be mitigated (avoided) by swapping a smaller orifice into the top hat? Or would I have valve dump regardless of transfer port size if I was to put a .177 barrel in my .25 Condor SS?

 

[Danman]

What a coincidence, I literally just watched the Dollar Sportsman on YT take a scope to the face last night from a TexRex! He was shooting the "light" (lol) 350gr slugs with a high power orifice and it dumped half the tank in the process. I have no answer for you but I have another question, can you dry fire an AF rifle? Would that not cause valve dump similar to shooting too light an ammo with too big an orifice?

 

[PasadenaMike]

The .177 causes too much back pressure which is why it causes valve dump if not valved correctly. I suppose if you put a smaller orifice you’re essentially reducing the volume of air so it may work. Best thing is honestly call and speak with AF they answer the phone and are available most of the time

 

[Franklink]

What a coincidence, I literally just watched the Dollar Sportsman on YT take a scope to the face last night from a TexRex! He was shooting the "light" (lol) 350gr slugs with a high power orifice and it dumped half the tank in the process. I have no answer for you but I have another question, can you dry fire an AF rifle? Would that not cause valve dump similar to shooting too light an ammo with too big an orifice?

I've dry fired mine, and no air dump.

 

[Franklink]

I've only seen a partial valve dump once....it was when I used the biggest transfer port in the Ring -loc kit and a full length .20 barrel. So that was probably not enough resistance to get the valve shut quickly. Apparently the opposite holds true too....too much construction (.177 barrel with a larger caliber valve) can create a valve dump....

I was hoping someone would know for sure if the right combination of transfer port size could make a .177 barrel usable with an Air Force gun that started life as a larger caliber.

 

[Hvacguy]

I've only seen a partial valve dump once....it was when I used the biggest transfer port in the Ring -loc kit and a full length .20 barrel. So that was probably not enough resistance to get the valve shut quickly. Apparently the opposite holds true too....too much construction (.177 barrel with a larger caliber valve) can create a valve dump....

I was hoping someone would know for sure if the right combination of transfer port size could make a .177 barrel usable with an Air Force gun that started life as a larger caliber.

I have a DIY idea for an adjustable opening top-hat like Talon Tune's. Take your .232 top hat to Home Depot to figure out the threading. Purchase a grub screw and drill it out to your desired port size. Blue loctite on the threads. Just need to make sure the grub screw is short enough to not interfere with setting top hat depth.

 

[Franklink]

I have a DIY idea for an adjustable opening top-hat like Talon Tune's. Take your .232 top hat to Home Depot to figure out the threading. Purchase a grub screw and drill it out to your desired port size. Blue loctite on the threads. Just need to make sure the grub screw is short enough to not interfere with setting top hat depth.

I've been quite pleased with this....

Ring-Loc Valve Kits - Airforce Airguns

Take More Control of Your Air Usage and Power Levels Our Ring-Loc™ Valve Pin Kits allow shooters to have more adjustability from a new Condor or CondorSS air rifle. The Ring-Loc™ Valve Pin Kit includes multiple valve cap orifice sizes in .232, .166, .145, .123 and an .070 that shooters can...

airforceairguns.com

But your idea sounds like it'd work, for less $.

 

[Hvacguy]

I've been quite pleased with this....

Ring-Loc Valve Kits - Airforce Airguns

Take More Control of Your Air Usage and Power Levels Our Ring-Loc™ Valve Pin Kits allow shooters to have more adjustability from a new Condor or CondorSS air rifle. The Ring-Loc™ Valve Pin Kit includes multiple valve cap orifice sizes in .232, .166, .145, .123 and an .070 that shooters can...

airforceairguns.com

But your idea sounds like it'd work, for less $.

Exactly. A ring-loc alternative that isn't $50 plus shipping!!

 

[Pumacarl]

This is a really interesting topic, that I haven't given much thought to before. Now that I have been shooting .177 slugs in another pcp successfully, and finally have a TalonP, that does amazing power out of just a 12" barrel, I wonder if the valving of this gun could shoot the heavy 20gr .177 slugs out of a short 12" barrel. Has anyone tried to do that? Would trying that, be more or less likely to dump the valve? I'm still amazed, and scratching my head over, how my 12" barrel .25 TalonP can put out more power than my 20" barrel on my Marauder shooting really heavy projectiles. The dynamics of how this simple gun works is quite different from anything else, still crazy after all these years. Lol

 

[Danman]

This is a really interesting topic, that I haven't given much thought to before. Now that I have been shooting .177 slugs in another pcp successfully, and finally have a TalonP, that does amazing power out of just a 12" barrel, I wonder if the valving of this gun could shoot the heavy 20gr .177 slugs out of a short 12" barrel. Has anyone tried to do that? Would trying that, be more or less likely to dump the valve? I'm still amazed, and scratching my head over, how my 12" barrel .25 TalonP can put out more power than my 20" barrel on my Marauder shooting really heavy projectiles. The dynamics of how this simple gun works is quite different from anything else, still crazy after all these years. Lol

I have watched 3 different videos on YT of 3 different guys having the valve dump phenomenon while shooting Condors or Texans, plus @Franklinks above mentioned scenario making 4. I've only ever heard of it happening to AF pcps and it does concern me a bit lol. UpnorthAirgunner is one of the other guys....3 of the 4 were modding the guns when it happened, while the 4th was just testing different weight ammo....it blew down his chrono and made quite the noise!

 

[Pumacarl]

I have watched 3 different videos on YT of 3 different guys having the valve dump phenomenon while shooting Condors or Texans, plus @Franklinks above mentioned scenario making 4. I've only ever heard of it happening to AF pcps and it does concern me a bit lol. UpnorthAirgunner is one of the other guys....3 of the 4 were modding the guns when it happened, while the 4th was just testing different weight ammo....it blew down his chrono and made quite the noise!

It would certainly make for an exciting day of shooting! I think that it is pretty cool to have to worry about your gun being able to push so much air that you have to limit it, when most of the time I'm trying to open everything up. It would be nice to know if someone has documented when this occurs, at what pressures, with what weight of ammo, the whole nine yards. Shoot right to the edge of the platforms limits.

 

[Danman]

Hey @Franklink I found this on my deep deep Condor rabbit hole researching and thought id copy/paste it here:

A Condor comes from the factory with a 0.232-inch orifice installed (except for .177 which goes out with a 0.166-inch orifice). The Ring-Loc Kit opens up opportunities in these areas. The 0.232-inch orifice is best for .22 and .25 calibers. It is not recommended for .177 caliber. A stronger valve return spring is also installed in the valves for .177 rifles.

The 0.166 and 0.145-inch orifices found in the kit works well for all four calibers. As you will see they give more range of adjustment and higher numbers of shots with proportionately less power. The 0.123-inch orifice is best for .177 and .20 calibers, though the larger calibers will work with it.

 

[Franklink]

Im currently running the 0.145 and .22/18.1s at an average of 910-915fps.

These guys a couple hours ago didn't seem to mind the transfer port size. Gave them all bigger orifices.


These were just the easiest gathered ones, totaled out at just shy of 40 of them. Most of the shots were recorded. Just need to find time to edit.

 

[Danman]

Im currently running the 0.145 and .22/18.1s at an average of 910-915fps.

These guys a couple hours ago didn't seem to mind the transfer port size. Gave them all bigger orifices.
View attachment 15740

These were just the easiest gathered ones, totaled out at just shy of 40 of them. Most of the shots were recorded. Just need to find time to edit.

Oh man I'm envious Fall hits here and the pests dry right up.
Ahh your rocking a .22 barrel now....I guess if you want to go .177 you may also need the stronger valve return spring to avoid valve dump Hmmm I noticed you have tall adjustable scope rings, how's the ergos of your setup vs other pcps (Ghost?)

 

[Franklink]

Oh man I'm envious Fall hits here and the pests dry right up.
Ahh your rocking a .22 barrel now....I guess if you want to go .177 you may also need the stronger valve return spring to avoid valve dump Hmmm I noticed you have tall adjustable scope rings, how's the ergos of your setup vs other pcps (Ghost?)

Yeah, I picked up a cheap, primo, never been used 16mm 18 inch .22 on the classifieds for cheap, came with the bushings and all. I'll circle back around the .25 slugs eventually. Pellets are the easy button.

Yes, tall rings, and a bit of a story there. That PARD electronic scope requires adjustable rings. And those are the only adjustable rings I've got. They're a bit high but they work. After so much time on various bullpups and even my USFT (high scope height gun) over the last nearly decade.... I just don't mind high scope rings.

Ergos aren't as good as the Ghost, but again, I can make it work. Lots of people comment about being unhappy with the cheek to bottle angle in the Air Force guns, but it doesn't bug me. The crappy grip they come with is a bigger hard-stop for me than the cheek weld. Putting that finger groove grip on mine really improved the overall impression while shooting it. I did notice that it's a bit nose heavy now, with the 16mm barrel and that big heavy dovetail-to-pic adapter up front. May take off the rail adaptor.

 

[Danman]

Yeah, I picked up a cheap, primo, never been used 16mm 18 inch .22 on the classifieds for cheap, came with the bushings and all. I'll circle back around the .25 slugs eventually. Pellets are the easy button.

Yes, tall rings, and a bit of a story there. That PARD electronic scope requires adjustable rings. And those are the only adjustable rings I've got. They're a bit high but they work. After so much time on various bullpups and even my USFT (high scope height gun) over the last nearly decade.... I just don't mind high scope rings.

Ergos aren't as good as the Ghost, but again, I can make it work. Lots of people comment about being unhappy with the cheek to bottle angle in the Air Force guns, but it doesn't bug me. The crappy grip they come with is a bigger hard-stop for me than the cheek weld. Putting that finger groove grip on mine really improved the overall impression while shooting it. I did notice that it's a bit nose heavy now, with the 16mm barrel and that big heavy dovetail-to-pic adapter up front. May take off the rail adaptor.

That bugs me too Why on earth are only tall adjustable scope rings available? My brains gears are turning and I'm trying to think how I'd like a Condor set up before I even have one....a company offering low or medium height adjustable rings?...TAKE MY MONEY!!
Tuff to get away with low rings on the AF guns but a drop down tank adapter does interest me too...I'd likely shoot it between 20-100Y but I always like to get my scope optically centered @ 50Y if I can...