Spring/Piston Spring Piston vs. PCP: Is the Debate Over?

[Danman]

My springers were awesome to me from “my” then perspective. Mine were, are very accurate for pesting out to 40+ yards. Where they became deficient to me was in “follow up” shots or when presented with multiple opportunities. My first PCP, a Gamo Urban simply astounded me with what I could do with it. That it was a repeater, simply sealed the deal. Have zero interest in springer though I am holding on to my Beeman R7 and HWK .177. carbine…

Also when hunting with a spring gun it's either ready to shoot; chambered with a pellet (spring fatigue and can be seen as unsafe) or it's empty and you risk missing the quarry while loading. Multi shot pcps are mint for pesting, and I don't need a few pellets in my hand either for backup...but when target/paper shooting I love my springers just as much, and single loading is zen. My slowest to-load air rifle is the TX and the small amount of pesting I've done with it I was actually impressed with how quickly I could have a second shot ready to go in the moment (needed that once or twice this yr)

 

[Madhatter]

I have both and target shoot them. If I were to hunt again it would be with my Liberty in .22. I use to hunt ground squirrels many decades ago with my Diana 48 in .177 and will never get rid of it. If I ever go after coyotes it will be with my Sumatra.25. I'd have no problem putting down a song dog with that bad boy.

 

[Lowndes]

I have a TX200 and ProSport, several Feinwerkbau's and numerous HW guns along with one Diana, all springers, have never shot a PCP and really not interested.

DON'T START. PLEASE.

 

[Lowndes]

Sometimes you need a Ma Deuce, sometimes you need a blunderbuss. And some are still throwing rocks and the occasional stick, cause that's what they did when they were 10. I'll still pick up a PCP while they are out refilling their carbide lanterns they use for headlights on the buckboard. Movin' on.

 

[Danman]

Sometimes you need a Ma Deuce, sometimes you need a blunderbuss. And some are still throwing rocks and the occasional stick, cause that's what they did when they were 10. I'll still pick up a PCP while they are out refilling their carbide lanterns they use for headlights on the buckboard. Movin' on.

Lol we all get that, no one is hunting bears or shooting 200yards with springers but some don't want the hassle, or the expense of all the extras that come with pcps. Or hey they love a challenge... I generally don't understand people who hate on either... although... if you want to rag on C02 guns I'm in I've night hunted with a Diana 350mag (heavvyy) there was nothing I didn't shoot that dropped almost instantly. 100% pass throughs.

 

[Kragman1]

Here's the thing about springers - they're fun because they're a challenge.

For some shooting, a good PCP is the obvious choice. The power/range, etc. favor PCPs. But it's a fairly sterile experience - hold on target, pull trigger, hold on target, pull trigger, over and over. It's still shooting, so obviously it's all good, but springers require more on the shooters part. Some won't want to bother with that, some will really take to it.

They may both be airguns, but to me they are very different.

 

[Farmplinker2]

Lol we all get that, no one is hunting bears or shooting 200yards with springers but some don't want the hassle, or the expense of all the extras that come with pcps. Or hey they love a challenge... I generally don't understand people who hate on either... although... if you want to rag on C02 guns I'm in I've night hunted with a Diana 350mag (heavvyy) there was nothing I didn't shoot that dropped almost instantly. 100% pass throughs.

Hey, CO2 guns are less work than springers or PCPs! Sometimes you just want to put holes in pop cans fast.

 

[Lowndes]

Kragman1 said, "Here's the thing about springers - they're fun because they're a challenge...".

OK. I get that. But I've got enough "challenges" to keep me busy all day long. It's kinda like Danman said above, "Sometimes you just NEED to put holes in pop cans fast."!!

Years ago I bought a big, beautiful Benjamin Titan NP in .22. Mounted a scope, collected a a variety pellets, set up a target and bench rest in the basement with live, close up video of the target, and started shooting. No matter what I tried the paper always looked like a scattergun pattern board.

After reading here and other places, I came to the conclusion that it's really kinda simple: that big steel PISTON slamming to a stop (before the pellet moves) not only seriously jars the scope and mounts but causes barrel harmonics, no matter how you hold or don't hold it. Then, the stock (the resistance to that slam) is offset to and below the axis of that slam which causes the muzzle to rise. All this means that you would have to hold the gun in exactly the same way every shot to get any consistency/accuracy. Between both hands, shoulder, cheek, and a rest, all needing to have the same pressure and resistance for every shot, it's more than a challenge. On a bench it might be possible, hunting not so much.

The only way to get a springer to cooperate with physics is to have a hybrid system where the piston compresses the air before the shot, then the trigger releases the air to the chamber, like a PCP. Viola!! NO SLAMMING going on, just the recoil from the pellet acceleration and the compressed air leaving the muzzle. It would help to have the butplate in line with the bore, like an AR, too.

 

[Danman]

Kragman1 said, "Here's the thing about springers - they're fun because they're a challenge...".

OK. I get that. But I've got enough "challenges" to keep me busy all day long. It's kinda like Danman said above, "Sometimes you just NEED to put holes in pop cans fast."!!

Years ago I bought a big, beautiful Benjamin Titan NP in .22. Mounted a scope, collected a a variety pellets, set up a target and bench rest in the basement with live, close up video of the target, and started shooting. No matter what I tried the paper always looked like a scattergun pattern board.

After reading here and other places, I came to the conclusion that it's really kinda simple: that big steel PISTON slamming to a stop (before the pellet moves) not only seriously jars the scope and mounts but causes barrel harmonics, no matter how you hold or don't hold it. Then, the stock (the resistance to that slam) is offset to and below the axis of that slam which causes the muzzle to rise. All this means that you would have to hold the gun in exactly the same way every shot to get any consistency/accuracy. Between both hands, shoulder, cheek, and a rest, all needing to have the same pressure and resistance for every shot, it's more than a challenge. On a bench it might be possible, hunting not so much.

The only way to get a springer to cooperate with physics is to have a hybrid system where the piston compresses the air before the shot, then the trigger releases the air to the chamber, like a PCP. Viola!! NO SLAMMING going on, just the recoil from the pellet acceleration and the compressed air leaving the muzzle. It would help to have the butplate in line with the bore, like an AR, too.

The inaccuracies your gun suffered could be a host of issues...a mid power springer (10 - 16fpe in .177) ,is truly the sweet spot and will reward you by shooting sweetly, accurately, and not murdering your scopes, or spitting out all it's stock screws. I shoot 2 family members magnum springers a bit and it's not overly pleasant. My 13fpe TX springer hits almost everything but yeah vital shots are 100% needed....if pesting its pcp time for me! Final statement lol: my brother has mastered his 350magnum springer shooting slugs and he and I had a starling slaying competition this past summer. Me and my .22 30fpe dead nuts pcp vs him and his Diana .177 20fpe springer. Didnt feel fair, well....He destroyed me In all fairness he has a mulberry tree that was attracting them to his yard so he had more opportunity but he also rarely missed! Oh....and a Jsb 10.03 slug going 925fps annihilates starlings!! And it's a good workout cocking it...OK that's actually a negative.

 

[Lowndes]

Google says the Titan NP delivers 21 fpe so that puts me in the stinky spot. Figures. But I'll keep it just for it's looks.

That's why it's still laying on the top shelf where I left it several years ago

 

[Pastorczo13]

Hey, CO2 guns are less work than springers or PCPs! Sometimes you just want to put holes in pop cans fast.

I have a tuned Xisco XS-60c and it shoots .22 at around 750fps, good for squirrels and paper

 

[JimT66]

I love my pcps but I’d never look down on anyone shooting a springer. Springer shooting is a skill I’ve not mastered.

Don't feel bad about that Mike, I have always had springers, and gas pistons. Seems like with each model, there was more to learn. And the more I learned, I seemed to unlearn earlier habits and holds.

 

[Grunt64]

Share Your Real-World Experiences!

Indeed, it would depend on the intended use. Springers are straightforward to operate and don't require an air compressor, yet their range, caliber options, and FPE are limited. PCPs, on the other hand, necessitate an air compressor but offer greater power, a wider selection of calibers, and the ability to shoot over longer distances. As a hunter targeting woodchucks, raccoons, and coyotes, I opt for a PCP due to the necessary power.

 

[JimT66]

Amen to that Grunt64. Who in they right mind wants to take on a wounded trash panda or coyote with a spring? I've proclaimed,"Hold my beer", numerous times to many things, but this country boy ain't never been that stupid. gimme my tuned PCP back, quick!

 

[Lowndes]

Amen to that Grunt64. Who in they right mind wants to take on a wounded trash panda or coyote with a spring? I've proclaimed,"Hold my beer", numerous times to many things, but this country boy ain't never been that stupid. gimme my tuned PCP back, quick!

Amen.

Praise the Lord and pass the pellets!!

 

[Grunt64]

Amen to that Grunt64. Who in they right mind wants to take on a wounded trash panda or coyote with a spring? I've proclaimed,"Hold my beer", numerous times to many things, but this country boy ain't never been that stupid. gimme my tuned PCP back, quick!

Thank you, but I am merely echoing what many of us are already aware of. Yet, we all observe those few who believe they possess superior knowledge.

 

[ernroe]

I don’t think one is better than the other. To me it is a similar dichotomy to semi-auto vs revolvers in the PB world.

Springers-
Pros:
Top end springer costs as much as a mid-tier PCP
Self contained, no fill equipment, grab and go
Give more “feedback” when firing
Easy to work on and “tune” with drop-in kits and springs
Modest power output is more conducive to back yard shooting in suburban/city environments
Challenging for the shooter- practice improves fundamentals like breathing and follow through

Cons:
Lower power/less fpe
More challenging- takes longer to master
Economy/mid tier models can be hard to shoot well or even inaccurate
Scopes can meet untimely deaths due to dual recoil
Most need some polishing and tuning or a minimum level of breaking in to reach their potential

PCPs-
Pros:
Power and adjustability, modular design for some platforms
Less hold sensitive and easier to shoot well
So many options- one (or let’s be real, as many as you can afford) will be the best fit for you and your needs
More power=more ammo choices. Pellets, slugs, arrows, etc
Can be mouse fart quiet

Cons:
Initial cost of entry for gun and related equipment
Maintenance and repair is more complicated
Incredibly addictive

Imo every air gunner should have one good springer in their collection. Tuning a spring gun to your style is a great way to enjoy shooting every time you pick it up.

I will never get tired of the precision and silence of my PCPs.

Just enjoy the hobby!

A great analogy! I have both and appreciate both.

 

[ernroe]

I may have posted this before, if so, don't stop me I like telling the story.
While shooting off my modified shooting rest I decided to compare .22 HW100 and my .22 HW50S at 50yds, 5 shots each with same ammo and same target. I didn't know what was going to happen. I aimed at same place (or tried to) with each gun. I was pleasantly surprised. The HW50 had 1 flier but that was on me not the gun. You can see the top of the flier at top of HW100 label. That Springer has nothing to be ashamed of. I believe if I were a better marksman the HW50S could have done better.

 

[Hoppalong Doc]

View attachment 16702I may have posted this before, if so, don't stop me I like telling the story.
While shooting off my modified shooting rest I decided to compare .22 HW100 and my .22 HW50S at 50yds, 5 shots each with same ammo and same target. I didn't know what was going to happen. I aimed at same place (or tried to) with each gun. I was pleasantly surprised. The HW50 had 1 flier but that was on me not the gun. You can see the top of the flier at top of HW100 label. That Springer has nothing to be ashamed of. I believe if I were a better marksman the HW50S could have done better

Not everyone understands our fasination with punching little holes in paper. Few of those out of our group can understand why we need to shoot more than one rifle , I mean, why? There are those that I hand a rifle to, and they shoot, punching little holes in the target, usually spraying holes all over the the place; and then they get it . . . they realize that they must make groups closer together. When they get their first bullseye, they can't wait to show it off. Now they're hooked: no matter the distance to their chosen target, no matter the elevation, the wind, the lighting, no matter the challenge, the bullseye must be destroyed. Now, various pellets are tried in various rifles, always in search of the elusive bullseye. There is always the next challenge. Now we know that they've fallen down the rabbit hole. For me, hours of shooting, all by myself, is serendipitous. Here is where I find my peace, just shooting little holes in paper. Orv.

 

[ernroe]

Not everyone understands our fasination with punching little holes in paper. Few of those out of our group can understand why we need to shoot more than one rifle , I mean, why? There are those that I hand a rifle to, and they shoot, punching little holes in the target, usually spraying holes all over the the place; and then they get it . . . they realize that they must make groups closer together. When they get their first bullseye, they can't wait to show it off. Now they're hooked: no matter the distance to their chosen target, no matter the elevation, the wind, the lighting, no matter the challenge, the bullseye must be destroyed. Now, various pellets are tried in various rifles, always in search of the elusive bullseye. There is always the next challenge. Now we know that they've fallen down the rabbit hole. For me, hours of shooting, all by myself, is serendipitous. Here is where I find my peace, just shooting little holes in paper. Orv.

Totally agree, but I did experience a learning curve coming over from Trap and Skeet.