Marauder G3, The Things I Do For Fun

[Billm]

Some interesting findings today. I started out by zeroing with 28gr Zan slugs at 16y and they were going through the same hole. Good. Shot a reaction target at 83y no problem. Good. Tried to move my tripod and shoot a group on paper at 94y and 10x isn't really enough for my eyes any more, but excuses aside, I only had 4 in the mag and shot two groups of two an inch left at 8 and 10 o'clock. Not good. So, back to my 53y shooting spot where I tethered the gun and shot groups with both slugs and pellets and the slugs seemed to be doing a little bit better, but most groups were nickle, not dime sized. Not good.

I decided to take off the Terminador carbon fiber shroud and just try shooting with the STO Levitas moderator. Wow! I have never seen such an effect as what that did. The gun's poi was now off by 6", but once corrected shot some really tight groups. I put the carbon fiber shroud back on and the poi was way off again, differently. So there is no way that I will use something that will not return my zero back after take down and re-assembly, not even closely. So much for that little experiment, I put the factory shroud and moderator back on. I don't want to run the Levitas with the factory shroud until I come up with a way to hold the barrel in the center of the shroud, along with some type of washer so that the thin shroud wall doesn't dig in, over time, to my regulator, which is just plastic on the end.

Free floating the barrel with the shroud and it's collet, not pulling on the barrel or the block, seems to be the most stable option to me at this point. I am not at all interested in doing any kind of barrel band off of a bottle either, so that's that. Bummer, the carbon fiber looked good, was light and strong, just didn't work out. If I was going to use this gun for any type of competitive shooting I would not run it with the shroud on at all. It really shoots the best w/o it on but I just don't like the look of not running one. I imagine that when others do what I am doing, and see what I am talking about, someone will make an adapter (maybe DonnyFL) to put in the end of the shroud to center the barrel and provide a flat shoulder to screw your moderator onto. I will buy that in a heartbeat.

Very interesting. I always wonder how all these shrouds affect these rifles compared to if they were truly free floated like a lot of PBs. In what way do you think the shroud is influencing the rifle? I’m assuming the barrel on the F3 is a solid and secure fitting. I’m just trying to learn what I can from your experience so far.

 

[Solo1]

Some interesting findings today. I started out by zeroing with 28gr Zan slugs at 16y and they were going through the same hole. Good. Shot a reaction target at 83y no problem. Good. Tried to move my tripod and shoot a group on paper at 94y and 10x isn't really enough for my eyes any more, but excuses aside, I only had 4 in the mag and shot two groups of two an inch left at 8 and 10 o'clock. Not good. So, back to my 53y shooting spot where I tethered the gun and shot groups with both slugs and pellets and the slugs seemed to be doing a little bit better, but most groups were nickle, not dime sized. Not good.

I decided to take off the Terminador carbon fiber shroud and just try shooting with the STO Levitas moderator. Wow! I have never seen such an effect as what that did. The gun's poi was now off by 6", but once corrected shot some really tight groups. I put the carbon fiber shroud back on and the poi was way off again, differently. So there is no way that I will use something that will not return my zero back after take down and re-assembly, not even closely. So much for that little experiment, I put the factory shroud and moderator back on. I don't want to run the Levitas with the factory shroud until I come up with a way to hold the barrel in the center of the shroud, along with some type of washer so that the thin shroud wall doesn't dig in, over time, to my regulator, which is just plastic on the end.

Free floating the barrel with the shroud and it's collet, not pulling on the barrel or the block, seems to be the most stable option to me at this point. I am not at all interested in doing any kind of barrel band off of a bottle either, so that's that. Bummer, the carbon fiber looked good, was light and strong, just didn't work out. If I was going to use this gun for any type of competitive shooting I would not run it with the shroud on at all. It really shoots the best w/o it on but I just don't like the look of not running one. I imagine that when others do what I am doing, and see what I am talking about, someone will make an adapter (maybe DonnyFL) to put in the end of the shroud to center the barrel and provide a flat shoulder to screw your moderator onto. I will buy that in a heartbeat.

Have @Billm print you up something to glue in both ends of your shroud.

 

[Pumacarl]

After I wrote that post, I realized that I already came up with the solution to my problem. I just checked, and the the Terminador 3D printed end cap for the cabon fiber shroud will do the job perfectly. I just have to cut it down to leave the threads exposed to tighten the moderator on. So I will get some use out of it after all. I'll post pics when I'm done.

 

[BBGunn]

I once suggested in a thread on a different forum that I could not understand why manufacturers continue to make air rifles with shrouds??? Of course there was a lot of push-back and personal opinions suggested on that thread.

Shrouds on air rifles came about as a means to apply baffles to help silence the rifle's report. That at a time when it was unclear about the legality of suppressors on airguns in the USA. So, I still contend that there is more problems to be had with a shroud on a barrel than if there was no shroud at all. If air rifle designers would just build rifles with steel barrels, appropriate diameters, and quality rifling with accurate bore dimensions we consumers would all be much happier.

Sorry, Pumacarl that this remark does nothing to help resolve your problem. But, your writing just reminded me about my thoughts regarding barrel shrouds on current manufactured air rifles.

Go ahead boys, fire away!

 

[Billm]

Have @Billm print you up something to glue in both ends of your shroud.

I’m always willing to help if I can.

 

[Billm]

I once suggested in a thread on a different forum that I could not understand why manufacturers continue to make air rifles with shrouds??? Of course there was a lot of push-back and personal opinions suggested on that thread.

Shrouds on air rifles came about as a means to apply baffles to help silence the rifle's report. That at a time when it was unclear about the legality of suppressors on airguns in the USA. So, I still contend that there is more problems to be had with a shroud on a barrel than if there was no shroud at all. If air rifle designers would just build rifles with steel barrels, appropriate diameters, and quality rifling with accurate bore dimensions we consumers would all be much happier.

Sorry, Pumacarl that this remark does nothing to help resolve your problem. But, your writing just reminded me about my thoughts regarding barrel shrouds on current manufactured air rifles.

Go ahead boys, fire away!

I think you have a valid point. I do like the shroud on my Ghost though. That gun is very quiet because of well designed stripper and shroud combo.

 

[Pumacarl]

I once suggested in a thread on a different forum that I could not understand why manufacturers continue to make air rifles with shrouds??? Of course there was a lot of push-back and personal opinions suggested on that thread.

Shrouds on air rifles came about as a means to apply baffles to help silence the rifle's report. That at a time when it was unclear about the legality of suppressors on airguns in the USA. So, I still contend that there is more problems to be had with a shroud on a barrel than if there was no shroud at all. If air rifle designers would just build rifles with steel barrels, appropriate diameters, and quality rifling with accurate bore dimensions we consumers would all be much happier.

Sorry, Pumacarl that this remark does nothing to help resolve your problem. But, your writing just reminded me about my thoughts regarding barrel shrouds on current manufactured air rifles.

Go ahead boys, fire away!

Actually in this case, you are exactly correct if trying to use the Terminador way of doing it. The Gen3 system doesn't really effect anything but the looks of the gun. I am going to try to explain that in a post I am going to do now with pictures. I will add that I like even back-to-front fat shrouds for their looks (no silencer bulge on the end) and their effectiveness for sound mitigation when they are active expansion chambers, better than screwing on an additional silencer when they work right. I don't like the weight of the fat "real" barrels on airguns much, unless they are bench guns.

 

[Pumacarl]

Very interesting. I always wonder how all these shrouds affect these rifles compared to if they were truly free floated like a lot of PBs. In what way do you think the shroud is influencing the rifle? I’m assuming the barrel on the F3 is a solid and secure fitting. I’m just trying to learn what I can from your experience so far.

Bill, the shroud on the Gen3 is connected to the barrel via the collet in front of the block. If you notice in my picture, that collet receives the shroud and has a lip on the end so the shroud does not push against the block at all. The collet is held in place by a bulge in the barrel, that you can't see when it's on and prevents it from sliding forward on the barrel, and a set screw to stop it from spinning. This makes it a totally on barrel system that does not stress it to the block at all, just itself. Nothing is pulling on the barrel this way, in other words.



The Terminador system does not use fixed collets, it floats. So when you tighten down the moderator on the end, it compresses the shroud and pulls on the barrel in the gun, held there by the two screws coming from the top of the receiver. It makes the compressed shroud very rigid, but as I found out, changes poi big time, every time you take off your moderator. If you don't mind re-zeroing every time you have your gun apart, this isn't much of a problem, but I didn't like the amount of the change. These are what the 3D printed shroud ends looked like, one is what I cut down to use on the end of the factory aluminum shroud.



The problem with the factory shroud is that it floats in the end of the shroud until you put on the factory moderator which screws into the shroud, not onto the barrel, to take up the space. If you want to use your own moderator you are tightening down on a barrel in a shroud that is floating. How do you know if it's centered? You really don't, which I don't like. And, then you are tightening against the end of a very thin shroud, again, which I don't really like. So, I took the Terminador shroud end and cut one down so that I could use it on the end of the shroud to center the barrel and protect the shroud end and moderator from each other.



Before cutting.



After cutting.



STO Levitas in place.



This is a solution that I can live with.

Edit: Also, I wanted to add, that now the shroud is actually being tensioned between the collet and moderator, so it could potentially help with harmonics too. The factory way of doing it has no tension. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

 

[Powermonger1]

This is the second time I didn’t get the Panthera out in time for a coyote about 35 yards beyond our fence line. Not as fast as I was in my younger years!!

 

[Powermonger1]

Got to protect our babies. Don’t think big enough for Sasha! But the minpin and Mattie I would be upset !!

 

[Pumacarl]

This is the second time I didn’t get the Panthera out in time for a coyote about 35 yards beyond our fence line. Not as fast as I was in my younger years!!

With all my airguns, I had a woodchuck walk by my place while I was in the middle of grilling some huge porterhouse steaks this weekend! It's almost like he knew I wasn't about to screw up a good steak just for him, and he was right.

 

[Ezana4CE]

@Pumacarl I haven’t finished reading through this thread, but it’s been a great read so far.

 

[wallyworldmudhen]

Very interesting entry. Thank you. The alternative might be to check Airgun Revisions (Good website) as they have a carbine model available, Less weight and less length.

 

[Pumacarl]

Very interesting entry. Thank you. The alternative might be to check Airgun Revisions (Good website) as they have a carbine model available, Less weight and less length.

I knew about it. I bought this model from Airgun Revisions. I'm done with short guns, they're handy but I don't shoot them as well anymore. I also wanted to keep my options open for slinging heavy slugs since this gun has the power to send them. Just taking the weight off the front like I did made on huge difference in hold feel and swing weight. I made the right call for me. Welcome to HAM!

 

[Pumacarl]

I re-zeroed tonight at 16y using the 34gr MkII pellets and then went straight to some 84y reaction targets and was hitting all of them easily. A good scope and Strelok feels like the ultimate cheat code, I love it!

It's time to talk about the magazine. I happen to not hate this type of magazine like a lot of people do. I find that they are inexpensive and work well with both pellets and slugs. This particular version is freakin' huge! No worries about anything fitting in this thing. With that said, I will say something rather negative about this particular version that really bugs me. This magazine is, like I said, huge. All the other magazines of this type that I have are smaller and have a much clearer and easier to read shot count window than this has. The window on this magazine is unreadable to me, the numbers are barely there, AND they are not painted white! I can barely read them with a flashlight. I really want to see this change. I usually buy enough magazines to cover how many shots I can do on a fill. I won't be buying more of these unless they do a better job with the window and readability. I had tried tonight to put some paint in the numbers but they are so barely there that it all comes out when I go to wipe off the excess paint. Usually this is an easy thing to do. The aftermarket hasn't kicked in yet, I checked. I will continue to keep checking for improvements from Benjamin and the aftermarket. I'll post when something changes.