I think I am ready for something really good!

[Playingdead]

So I am thinking of a new (to me at least) rifle. I know this is a common question, but I am pretty experienced so I want to approach the conversation differently.

I have some nice rifles and a lot of cheap rifles. I just picked up a replacement Avenger and it just shoots well. One hole at 50 as long as I am holding up my end. This made me realize I need one really good rifle. I want to be able to shoot 100 yard plus MOA and know it is me if the rifle does not print.

Here is my issue. I really want to see and hold some rifles. Unfortunately in Atlanta area there just is now where to go. There is no real air rifle community for anything other than a small sub-12 Field Target Club. So going to a store or range is out of the question.

So I either make a trip somewhere or buy sight unseen. That is a tough choice for me. So I am like let me talk this through with the community.

Here is what I have and am thinking

I have a 100 yard range
I can go out to 150-200 next year
I shoot from a bench only
I want to be able to shoot a good group for me
I have tanks
Compressors
I own good glass or will buy something

I like bullpups and conventional rifles
I would like to stay in .22 ( I have .30s)
I would like more than 30 shots on a fill
Most importantly is has to be low maintenance

I have stayed away from FX only because it feels like the gun is a starter kit. I am not opposed to FX, it would just have to be a good deal.

Okay feel free to roast me. I have realistic expectations, but I just have no way to know what I really like.

All I ask is throw out dream rifles and the one of type stuff. Price can be from $100 to whatever I can afford. I guess.

Help me out….

 

[Danman]

So I am thinking of a new (to me at least) rifle. I know this is a common question, but I am pretty experienced so I want to approach the conversation differently.

I have some nice rifles and a lot of cheap rifles. I just picked up a replacement Avenger and it just shoots well. One hole at 50 as long as I am holding up my end. This made me realize I need one really good rifle. I want to be able to shoot 100 yard plus MOA and know it is me if the rifle does not print.

Here is my issue. I really want to see and hold some rifles. Unfortunately in Atlanta area there just is now where to go. There is no real air rifle community for anything other than a small sub-12 Field Target Club. So going to a store or range is out of the question.

So I either make a trip somewhere or buy sight unseen. That is a tough choice for me. So I am like let me talk this through with the community.

Here is what I have and am thinking

I have a 100 yard range
I can go out to 150-200 next year
I shoot from a bench only
I want to be able to shoot a good group for me
I have tanks
Compressors
I own good glass or will buy something

I like bullpups and conventional rifles
I would like to stay in .22 ( I have .30s)
I would like more than 30 shots on a fill
Most importantly is has to be low maintenance

I have stayed away from FX only because it feels like the gun is a starter kit. I am not opposed to FX, it would just have to be a good deal.

Okay feel free to roast me. I have realistic expectations, but I just have no way to know what I really like.

All I ask is throw out dream rifles and the one of type stuff. Price can be from $100 to whatever I can afford. I guess.

Help me out….

So what your really asking is: what .22 pcp can shoot slugs accurately?

I have a .22 Brk Ghost, and it is among the best  pellet shooters out there; 25.39gr Mrds, 975fps, polished barrel, messed with tune, bought a good bipod, made a portable bench, rear Caldwell rest, good glass.... it can print under 2 inch groups @ 100Y off a bench consistently with no wind or just a breeze.
MOA? Not possible with .22 pellets consistently, never seen it?
My ghost has a 98Y kill (small bird), multiple consecutive 5-shot groups under 2" @ 100Y, and im very happy with it, but Moa @ 100 it is not.

Heavy pellet options in .22 is part of the problem, shoot Mrds and you can expect the odd wild flier, some people are loving the JTS/AEA heavies....
Indoors I'm sure it is possible, but i can only shoot 50Y indoors....

 

[Billm]

My experience with the FX Panthera MKII doesn’t fit your perception of FX. The Panthera/Dynamic MKII and the DRS MKII seem to have kicked that reputation to the curb. I added an extra liner and a Bull Barrel, but neither was a must have item. The trigger on my Panthera MKII puts both of my BRK triggers to shame. The Panthera has more power than my Sonoran with AOA Power Tune or my Ghost HP. I’m not saying that either FX is the “ONE”. I’m just suggesting that you don’t discount them so easily. I like the RTI Mora, but I’m going to wait a little longer before seriously considering one. There were a lot of Moras at the big competitions, a lot of them were provided free of charge to select shooters.

 

[Playingdead]

@Danman I have been looking at AoA and wish I would have bought the Ghost that has been in the used section for months. It is gone now. Anything I should look out for in a used gun? Also is there add ons that feel like must haves?

@Billm I really like the Panthera and think a front and rear bottle option looks good. On a serious note how many shoots on a fill? How often are you maintaining it? Last, what did you find was a must add after buying it.

I like the Epic One, but there is not a lot on them, and what I find sounds like they have flaws,

 

[Playingdead]

What does everyone think of RAW 1000X?

 

[Danman]

@Danman I have been looking at AoA and wish I would have bought the Ghost that has been in the used section for months. It is gone now. Anything I should look out for in a used gun? Also is there add ons that feel like must haves?

Yeah the stock grip and buttpad are cheap slick plastic, I hated them so i bought some aftermarket rubber stuff. Grip is AK not AR.
Trigger is not great but a bit of work and its excellent for a bullpup. Mines just over a pound now, was gonna go lower but I like it.
Total cost for the new grip and chunkier buttpad was $100? My dad (machinist) made the bracket to fit the bp on and increase L.O.P. a bit too.
My 2 complaints are you can't mount it into a tripod without another rail adapter, and Brk slug barrels are rare and expensive.

Did some plinking today at 50, 75, 100, & 120Yards. 50 and 75 were too easy. 100Y was fun, 120Y was challenging with lots of misses and the mrds were dropping hard at that distance. Close up pick of the back end
of mine.

 

[Arzrover]

So I am thinking of a new (to me at least) rifle. I know this is a common question, but I am pretty experienced so I want to approach the conversation differently.

I have some nice rifles and a lot of cheap rifles. I just picked up a replacement Avenger and it just shoots well. One hole at 50 as long as I am holding up my end. This made me realize I need one really good rifle. I want to be able to shoot 100 yard plus MOA and know it is me if the rifle does not print.

Here is my issue. I really want to see and hold some rifles. Unfortunately in Atlanta area there just is now where to go. There is no real air rifle community for anything other than a small sub-12 Field Target Club. So going to a store or range is out of the question.

So I either make a trip somewhere or buy sight unseen. That is a tough choice for me. So I am like let me talk this through with the community.

Here is what I have and am thinking

I have a 100 yard range
I can go out to 150-200 next year
I shoot from a bench only
I want to be able to shoot a good group for me
I have tanks
Compressors
I own good glass or will buy something

I like bullpups and conventional rifles
I would like to stay in .22 ( I have .30s)
I would like more than 30 shots on a fill
Most importantly is has to be low maintenance

I have stayed away from FX only because it feels like the gun is a starter kit. I am not opposed to FX, it would just have to be a good deal.

Okay feel free to roast me. I have realistic expectations, but I just have no way to know what I really like.

All I ask is throw out dream rifles and the one of type stuff. Price can be from $100 to whatever I can afford. I guess.

Help me out….

Well... here's another MOA request like it's so commonplace and easy... It's propagated by people that shoot one MOA group and then call their rifle an MOA airgun. If you think about it in pb terms , it's quite expensive and usually with very special ammo to get that on a consistent basis. Many come close and some cartridges are better than others but it's still not easy and maybe not common as is propagated AND that is with bullets that have bc's more than 10 times better than pellets. Just look at the rifle tests in the different magazines.
ANYWAY, the closest you're going to get for a guaranteed MOA capable is a Thomas HPX. These are thoroughly tuned and debugged by one I'd definitely consider a master.
Good rifles that could be considered are:
Mora,
Vulcan 2 or 3
AAA EVOL hps
Epic
DS Blackwolf
Red Wolf
RAW

It's likely that any or all of these will require tuning and real effort to get consistent MOA, no fault results, IF you can find a good enough ammo match.
There are likey FX rifles that have the capability too, but I avoid them myself, and you've already mentioned a similar preference.
Just my opinions here...
Bob

 

[Playingdead]

Well... here's another MOA request like it's so commonplace and easy... It's propagated by people that shoot one MOA group and then call their rifle an MOA airgun. If you think about it in pb terms , it's quite expensive and usually with very special ammo to get that on a consistent basis. Many come close and some cartridges are better than others but it's still not easy and maybe not common as is propagated AND that is with bullets that have bc's more than 10 times better than pellets. Just look at the rifle tests in the different magazines.
ANYWAY, the closest you're going to get for a guaranteed MOA capable is a Thomas HPX. These are thoroughly tuned and debugged by one I'd definitely consider a master.
Good rifles that could be considered are:
Mora,
Vulcan 2 or 3
AAA EVOL hps
Epic
DS Blackwolf
Red Wolf
RAW

It's likely that any or all of these will require tuning and real effort to get consistent MOA, no fault results, IF you can find a good enough ammo match.
There are likey FX rifles that have the capability too, but I avoid them myself, and you've already mentioned a similar preference.
Just my opinions here...
Bob

I am aware of what it takes to shoot MOA. I have rifles that are close and on a very food day might shoot one group at 1 inch. If you see my post you would know I am realistic about my expectations.

There are plenty of Sub-MOA rifles out there at 100 yards. I don't think I can shoot sub-MOA at 100. Just need a rifle that can in .22.

All Rifles I have looked at:
FX Dynamic Block (Pantera,Dynamic)
HM1000x LRT
Karma Red Panda
FX DRS
MORA 2 700
BRK Ghost
EPIC One Walnut ARCA
Daystate Red Wolf

 

[Pumacarl]

That's a good list, include AAA on it. I came to the same place as you and wanted a really good gun a while back. I own some tier one guns now and I honestly don't like them any better than the cheapies I worked on and got shooting great. It is a treat though to have something built right, or be hyper-adjustable right out of the gate. It's worth doing for that alone. You well know by now, most airguns, even tier one airguns, are going to take a lot of figuring and maybe some actual work to get shooting exactly like you want. Many people cry once, pay the money and think that they are going to be lucky with everything but it rarely happens, and they sell their "bad gun." There's likely nothing wrong with it that couldn't be fixed or figured out cheaply and easily. All to say, buy used, like you said originally. If the gun hasn't been actually abused, chances are good you will end up with just as good of an ownership experience and save quite a few bucks. Any gun on your list is a good candidate. Just don't get something that you need to be talked into. If you are not 100% convinced and excited about getting something, don't get it, enjoy the stuff you already have, until you will enjoy something else more.

 

[Billm]

@Danman I have been looking at AoA and wish I would have bought the Ghost that has been in the used section for months. It is gone now. Anything I should look out for in a used gun? Also is there add ons that feel like must haves?

@Billm I really like the Panthera and think a front and rear bottle option looks good. On a serious note how many shoots on a fill? How often are you maintaining it? Last, what did you find was a must add after buying it.

I like the Epic One, but there is not a lot on them, and what I find sounds like they have flaws,

I’ve done nothing at all to it since I got it back from Newman. It does not get very many shots right now - low 20s on the regulator. But, I think my regulator gauge is reading low.

 

[Arzrover]

As Pumacarl says, that is a very good list. I agree with adding an AAA HPS and also agree on the statement about work. I don't think a single one on that list will shoot sub moa without some tweaking and finding the right ammo. THAT was what I was alluding to in my previous post.
On good wind days with good batches of 22 MRD's, our Red Wolfs would be consistent in the inch and less area, but it took both of those plus a decent shooter day. The only slugs I've ever had that success with were hand swaged by Nick of NSA... 20.2 gn in 177 and 49.5 gn in 30 cal. They were pure lead and absolutely phenomenal but the high speed product he sold were harder and didn't do near as well. The 20 cal, 18.9s that @Franklink and I have documented have been quite fun and he does extremely well with them but mine are a little larger groups. Maybe shooter skill, maybe barrel variation , but they are still a blast. The KO's have been quite fun out of my RW as well, but I don't consider them sub moa. I've not had much luck in 22 cal other than the light stuff but that could be my unwillingness to spend money or time chasing it. There's nothing I specifically NEED it for, so the 177 and 20 happily fill my slug playing.
I've spent a little time with my Blackwolf and slugs in 22 cal with the 22 twist and 16 twist SubMOA barrels but not seen any real magic yet and getting old... life is short... so I've moved on to other fun stuff with it. Hafta say... it has REAL capability and is one sweet airgun to shoot, but since I'm not going to compete in PRS or anything else that needs heavy slugs, just don't feel like chasing it.
I fully recognize that others have time and desire to go there and applaud that though...
Bob

 

[Solo1]

As Pumacarl says, that is a very good list. I agree with adding an AAA HPS and also agree on the statement about work. I don't think a single one on that list will shoot sub moa without some tweaking and finding the right ammo. THAT was what I was alluding to in my previous post.
On good wind days with good batches of 22 MRD's, our Red Wolfs would be consistent in the inch and less area, but it took both of those plus a decent shooter day. The only slugs I've ever had that success with were hand swaged by Nick of NSA... 20.2 gn in 177 and 49.5 gn in 30 cal. They were pure lead and absolutely phenomenal but the high speed product he sold were harder and didn't do near as well. The 20 cal, 18.9s that @Franklink and I have documented have been quite fun and he does extremely well with them but mine are a little larger groups. Maybe shooter skill, maybe barrel variation , but they are still a blast. The KO's have been quite fun out of my RW as well, but I don't consider them sub moa. I've not had much luck in 22 cal other than the light stuff but that could be my unwillingness to spend money or time chasing it. There's nothing I specifically NEED it for, so the 177 and 20 happily fill my slug playing.
I've spent a little time with my Blackwolf and slugs in 22 cal with the 22 twist and 16 twist SubMOA barrels but not seen any real magic yet and getting old... life is short... so I've moved on to other fun stuff with it. Hafta say... it has REAL capability and is one sweet airgun to shoot, but since I'm not going to compete in PRS or anything else that needs heavy slugs, just don't feel like chasing it.
I fully recognize that others have time and desire to go there and applaud that though...
Bob

Thats the big thing i don’t get about slugs is just how finicky they are. As you said sometimes it really takes a big investment in time and money to shoot that 1 gem well. The only barrels ive had that seem to shoot 22 and above fairly easily and fairly accurately are fx and even though i accept that its partially cause of profile its hard to understand