250Z My thoughts on the 250z overall

[Northeastbeast]

To start the price point. Its good, leaves room for aftermarket goodies. Which we all love so much, as making the rifle are own is always the goal. Tune ability super tunable. The rifle responses very well to tuning and is not real picky as to the settings. The Stock its biggest downfall as far as my opinion is concerned. Its flimsy in points not enough side mlok. For hunting it works but for tactical prs style shooting it doesn't. Trigger is ok for the average shooter, but with a little work can hang with anything out there. Barrels are good but could use a bit of help with some polishing. Barra Customer service, A+ they are on top of things over there and willing to answer questions even on weekends. Over all i give the rifle a B+ for its price point. Its a great little gun that fills alot of spots. For the beginner as its easy to work on, the hunter with power and accuracy. And the pro well we are going to find out how she does in comp maybe soon

 

[Pumacarl]

Fair, for your experience. I'd give it a C+ overall, for mine. I know that there are a few lucky people out there who had no problems with theirs, and great accuracy, who will give it an A. Such is the way of things.

Mine came with production problems, ok, that's bad luck, but the design issues are not. The Picatinny rail is not cut correctly across front and rear, the buffer tube does not use a standard mil-spec threading, which means: no scope swapping and no folding stock adapters. A major loser! Making the stock stronger, here and there is doable, but these are problems that are not worth chasing, in my estimation. Whatever problems the trigger/safety might have are not that hard to fix either. The barrel leade was rough but overall I think the barrel was pretty good. I am surprised by how much I like how they did the air cylinder, very simple and rugged. There is a lot to like in this specialized gun, but it is just that, very niche, not a one gun solution to me. Hopefully more people will speak up and version 2 will knock it out of the park.

Edit: I forgot to mention how a pellet can fall into the trigger group, using the single shot adapter. Incredible.

 

[Billm]

I guess I’ll fall into the middle and give the rifle a B. As far as customer service I’m being generous in my opinion and will give them a C- . The rifle I received was defective. I fixed it myself and that was a blessing as they took almost 2 months to send parts. They provided me with nothing in return for the issues. Most support chats/emails took days for a response. Some chats/emails have never been responded to 3 months later. But I do like the rifle and I’ve turned completely transforming the rifle into a fun project. I’ve designed quite a few mods for it. I’m new to PCPs and wished that I had some experience with higher end air rifles to compare it to. The rifle is easy to work on.

 

[Pumacarl]

It is certainly an interesting project gun. Our three takes are interesting too. You had slow problematic customer support, mine was a little faster and they gave me a magazine for fixing the gun myself. And then Barra sent me the wrong mismarked magazine, compounding error. You really should have been comped too. Northeastbeast seemed to have fast customer service, and one of his guns had a choked barrel mistake too. And yet, the three of us still seem to be happy overall. Between the differing customer support, lack of checking the product for defects before shipping, and flat out design errors, you'd think we'd all be really pissed off, but nope. When it is all up and running, with all of our different customizations that we've done, it is a very cool grin machine.

 

[Billm]

When I’m done I’ll post a photo.

 

[Ezana4CE]

I like the variance of experiences and apparent honesty in your assessments of the guns and Barra customer service.

 

[Chief 10-Beers]

I always liked the looks. With no Tube, or Bottle it looks sleek, and appears that it would work well from the Bench. My Avenger and My Ranger feel top heavy. It will be fun to follow more on this thread.

 

[Billm]

Well I have some experience with higher end air rifles now lol. I don’t have a Black Wolf yet, but you never know. I’ve bought five PCPs in the last 8 months. They all have their high and low points, but the Barra 250z in my opinion represents the best bang for the buck. It’s not the best of the bunch, but when you factor in the price compared to the price of the others it’s a nice package. It’s very accurate, reliable and has decent power. My least expensive rifle is the Beeman .177 regulated under lever. It’s accurate, reasonable quality, but extremely heavy and in my opinion it has a horrible balance. It reminds me of the balance of a Colt H-Bar that I bought in 92. The Beeman is the same rifle as the Barra 1100, but in a Bullpup. The Sonoran is by far the most accurate of the bunch. The Ghost is a great rifle too.
I wish a couple of good benchrest shooters would review the 250z. Not because I think that they would use one for competition, but because I think in another package, it would make a great entry level “One Design” competition gun. “One Design” comes from the racing world where everyone competes with the same design to keep costs down. The 250z is very accurate and easy to shoot.

 

[Ezana4CE]

Well I have some experience with higher end air rifles now lol. I don’t have a Black Wolf yet, but you never know. I’ve bought five PCPs in the last 8 months. They all have their high and low points, but the Barra 250z in my opinion represents the best bang for the buck. It’s not the best of the bunch, but when you factor in the price compared to the price of the others it’s a nice package. It’s very accurate, reliable and has decent power. My least expensive rifle is the Beeman .177 regulated under lever. It’s accurate, reasonable quality, but extremely heavy and in my opinion it has a horrible balance. It reminds me of the balance of a Colt H-Bar that I bought in 92. The Beeman is the same rifle as the Barra 1100, but in a Bullpup. The Sonoran is by far the most accurate of the bunch. The Ghost is a great rifle too.
I wish a couple of good benchrest shooters would review the 250z. Not because I think that they would use one for competition, but because I think in another package, it would make a great entry level “One Design” competition gun. “One Design” comes from the racing world where everyone competes with the same design to keep costs down. The 250z is very accurate and easy to shoot.

@Billm Seeing these types of reviews gives me a good idea of what someone just getting into the hobby and on a budget may be seeking. I’m just not into the quality control crap shoot. The barrel lottery is enough suspense for me.

 

[Chief 10-Beers]

And from what I have seen, even Higher End brands have their occasional bad barrels as well.

 

[Cantona256]

Okay I’ll throw in my two cents as well…. I agree with everything @Northeastbeast said….. I’m brand new to PCPs and this is my only gun at the moment…. 1) it’s very easy to work on and figure out. At this point I’ve had the whole gun taken apart. I’ve modified the intake sleeve, polished relubed and rebuilt the regulator…I did make a couple user error mistakes with the regulator but @Northeastbeast and @Pumacarl were able to talk me through it.

Quality control. I’ve probably had the best luck. Only issue I had was an issue where the grip screws into the stock. Barra had a new one out to me in 10 days no cost.

Note: most of the barrel issues with this gun have been with the .22…. Most of this gun’s part are “one size fits all” but the barrel is not one. As a machinist, my theory is that in the factory the barrels are machined on separate lines and/or machines… from a set up perspective the different diameters means a big change in set up… set up time costs money whereas running time makes you money. I suspect the .22 line has more issues for whatever reason….

I know nothing about bench rest or any of that stuff. I hunt with this gun A LOT…in 3 months I’ve shot turkey, quail, doves, cottontail, jack rabbits and squirrels from 35-125y… once I settled in an ammo and tune I liked this gun is a laser. Set right around 62ish foot pounds anything I’m touching is going down hard. I love this gun. I ask a lot of this gun. I live at 5000ft above the Utah desert. This thing experiences big elevation, temperature and terrain changes on an almost daily basis… and even though it’s way too long for the task it often rides shotgun with me as soon as I hit a dirt road.

It’s not perfect by any means. The regulator had a lot of creep to it until I hit it with the regulator butter. Definitely buy the slug power kit and the Airshootist reg butter. That stuff is awesome.

Overall I would also agree with @Pumacarl that it’s definitely niche. I’m a bit of a psycho and my post history will tell you I’ve been tuning and badgering people for info constantly haha. This is not the gun I would recommend for a first timer who wants to tune… if you want to shoot pellets at like 40-50fpe like a boss and look cool while doing it then heck yeah…but maybe not your first pcp and slug gun at the same time? Idk this gun has created a whole new area to nerd out on for me so I’m pretty much done for. Talk to me in 10 years… I’ll probably be living in a rusted out single wide trailer with not a dollar to my name but a SICK A$$ collection of air rifles.

For the sheer amount of fun that I’m having I give it an A+

Realistically though I give it a B overall but the price and tuneablility make it a B+ for me….. when it’s all said and done I feel like I got more than $440 worth of gun and wayyyy more than that in entertainment.

 

[Ezana4CE]

Okay I’ll throw in my two cents as well…. I agree with everything @Northeastbeast said….. I’m brand new to PCPs and this is my only gun at the moment…. 1) it’s very easy to work on and figure out. At this point I’ve had the whole gun taken apart. I’ve modified the intake sleeve, polished relubed and rebuilt the regulator…I did make a couple user error mistakes with the regulator but @Northeastbeast and @Pumacarl were able to talk me through it.

Quality control. I’ve probably had the best luck. Only issue I had was an issue where the grip screws into the stock. Barra had a new one out to me in 10 days no cost.

Note: most of the barrel issues with this gun have been with the .22…. Most of this gun’s part are “one size fits all” but the barrel is not one. As a machinist, my theory is that in the factory the barrels are machined on separate lines and/or machines… from a set up perspective the different diameters means a big change in set up… set up time costs money whereas running time makes you money. I suspect the .22 line has more issues for whatever reason….

I know nothing about bench rest or any of that stuff. I hunt with this gun A LOT…in 3 months I’ve shot turkey, quail, doves, cottontail, jack rabbits and squirrels from 35-125y… once I settled in an ammo and tune I liked this gun is a laser. Set right around 62ish foot pounds anything I’m touching is going down hard. I love this gun. I ask a lot of this gun. I live at 5000ft above the Utah desert. This thing experiences big elevation, temperature and terrain changes on an almost daily basis… and even though it’s way too long for the task it often rides shotgun with me as soon as I hit a dirt road.

It’s not perfect by any means. The regulator had a lot of creep to it until I hit it with the regulator butter. Definitely buy the slug power kit and the Airshootist reg butter. That stuff is awesome.

Overall I would also agree with @Pumacarl that it’s definitely niche. I’m a bit of a psycho and my post history will tell you I’ve been tuning and badgering people for info constantly haha. This is not the gun I would recommend for a first timer who wants to tune… if you want to shoot pellets at like 40-50fpe like a boss and look cool while doing it then heck yeah…but maybe not your first pcp and slug gun at the same time? Idk this gun has created a whole new area to nerd out on for me so I’m pretty much done for. Talk to me in 10 years… I’ll probably be living in a rusted out single wide trailer with not a dollar to my name but a SICK A$$ collection of air rifles.

For the sheer amount of fun that I’m having I give it an A+

Realistically though I give it a B overall but the price and tuneablility make it a B+ for me….. when it’s all said and done I feel like I got more than $440 worth of gun and wayyyy more than that in entertainment.

@Cantona256 That’s very insightful and encouraging for beginners or those who may balk at the thought of purchasing one.

 

[Pumacarl]

Fair, for your experience. I'd give it a C+ overall, for mine. I know that there are a few lucky people out there who had no problems with theirs, and great accuracy, who will give it an A. Such is the way of things.

Mine came with production problems, ok, that's bad luck, but the design issues are not. The Picatinny rail is not cut correctly across front and rear, the buffer tube does not use a standard mil-spec threading, which means: no scope swapping and no folding stock adapters. A major loser! Making the stock stronger, here and there is doable, but these are problems that are not worth chasing, in my estimation. Whatever problems the trigger/safety might have are not that hard to fix either. The barrel leade was rough but overall I think the barrel was pretty good. I am surprised by how much I like how they did the air cylinder, very simple and rugged. There is a lot to like in this specialized gun, but it is just that, very niche, not a one gun solution to me. Hopefully more people will speak up and version 2 will knock it out of the park.

Edit: I forgot to mention how a pellet can fall into the trigger group, using the single shot adapter. Incredible.

OK, time for an update I guess. Since I have had this gun in its final form and tune for a while now, and the problems that I had are a memory, I will re-grade this gun, my gun, done up my way, shooting JSB KO'S, a solid B+. If the picatinny rails maintained spec between the halves, and they would've used standard threading for folding stocks and pellets couldn't fall down inside with the singles tray, it would be an A+ at its price point. Not being able to scope swap bugs me the most out of these issues.

Still, this thing is such a laser now, and it has changed the way that I think about .22 caliber. At the 45fpe level it has much more in common with other .25 caliber airguns than what I think of as a regular 32fpe .22. I love shooting this gun! I very much notice the increased speed and bc benefits of slugs, especially since having shot about 60 tins of pellets at the 30ish fpe level over the past 8 years. This is just so much more fun to shoot, and I was not expecting that at all. I know there are a lot of people on these forums who have been shooting top tier .22 RAW's and FX's at high power for a while now, but I was not one of them, so the actual difference surprised me.

@Cantona256 did awesome work on his, for his first PCP, but he is a machinist, and he doesn't recommend this as a first PCP, and neither do I, unless you really just like working on and learning new things. If you're not the tinkering sort, you probably shouldn't be buying anything but a top tier PCP anyway, in my opinion, but that's a whole other topic. The Barra 250z is the perfect project gun to me, something different, and very cool in its own way, and capable.

 

[Chief 10-Beers]

OK, time for an update I guess. Since I have had this gun in its final form and tune for a while now, and the problems that I had are a memory, I will re-grade this gun, my gun, done up my way, shooting JSB KO'S, a solid B+. If the picatinny rails maintained spec between the halves, and they would've used standard threading for folding stocks and pellets couldn't fall down inside with the singles tray, it would be an A+ at its price point. Not being able to scope swap bugs me the most out of these issues.

Still, this thing is such a laser now, and it has changed the way that I think about .22 caliber. At the 45fpe level it has much more in common with other .25 caliber airguns than what I think of as a regular 32fpe .22. I love shooting this gun! I very much notice the increased speed and bc benefits of slugs, especially since having shot about 60 tins of pellets at the 30ish fpe level over the past 8 years. This is just so much more fun to shoot, and I was not expecting that at all. I know there are a lot of people on these forums who have been shooting top tier .22 RAW's and FX's at high power for a while now, but I was not one of them, so the actual difference surprised me.

@Cantona256 did awesome work on his, for his first PCP, but he is a machinist, and he doesn't recommend this as a first PCP, and neither do I, unless you really just like working on and learning new things. If you're not the tinkering sort, you probably shouldn't be buying anything but a top tier PCP anyway, in my opinion, but that's a whole other topic. The Barra 250z is the perfect project gun to me, something different, and very cool in its own way, and capable.

Thus the reason I went "Simplistic" With the Airforce! LOL

 

[Pumacarl]

Thus the reason I went "Simplistic" With the Airforce! LOL

Well, now, I can speak to that also, because I just got my first AirForce gun too.

For someone new to airguns, an AirForce airgun is a very good choice. If you plan on hunting with it, then probably the best. They are rugged and can be treated like a firearm w/o poi shifts. No regulator, so no creep, good first shot. No magazines to lose. Very safe, single shot. Damn accurate! Like I said, for hunting, this is great, a little bit limiting on shot count and ease of getting off a second shot, but an acceptable trade off. I personally think that they are a little bit over-priced, because like you said, they are "simplistic," but they are made here, so it is what it is. I don't like that they are still using dovetail rails either, and plastic for the power wheel and breech, so there is room for improvement.

A purely subjective negative, for a first air rifle, that you wouldn't actually even know, since it was your first, is how much fun you are not having, not having a higher shot count or a repeating action with a large capacity magazine to play with, on top of a regulated air supply giving you all those shots at a consistent fps. Whether, at the end of the day, a few years down the road, you decide that you like one set of traits better than the other is a coin toss.

I knew what I was getting when I got my TalonP, and why I wanted it, and what I was giving up and why it is worth it to do so sometimes, but many new owners don't. This is something that everyone has to figure out for themselves by figuring out what they think they are really going to do with the gun they are getting.

You're glad that you chose the simplistic AirForce now, and because you are happy, then that was a good choice. I will tell you though, that I am glad to have chose to add an AirForce airgun to my collection too, for the reason that I wanted it, but, knowing what I know now, and shooting both, if I could only keep one, it would be the 250z. It is just more fun.

 

[Billm]

OK, time for an update I guess. Since I have had this gun in its final form and tune for a while now, and the problems that I had are a memory, I will re-grade this gun, my gun, done up my way, shooting JSB KO'S, a solid B+. If the picatinny rails maintained spec between the halves, and they would've used standard threading for folding stocks and pellets couldn't fall down inside with the singles tray, it would be an A+ at its price point. Not being able to scope swap bugs me the most out of these issues.

Still, this thing is such a laser now, and it has changed the way that I think about .22 caliber. At the 45fpe level it has much more in common with other .25 caliber airguns than what I think of as a regular 32fpe .22. I love shooting this gun! I very much notice the increased speed and bc benefits of slugs, especially since having shot about 60 tins of pellets at the 30ish fpe level over the past 8 years. This is just so much more fun to shoot, and I was not expecting that at all. I know there are a lot of people on these forums who have been shooting top tier .22 RAW's and FX's at high power for a while now, but I was not one of them, so the actual difference surprised me.

@Cantona256 did awesome work on his, for his first PCP, but he is a machinist, and he doesn't recommend this as a first PCP, and neither do I, unless you really just like working on and learning new things. If you're not the tinkering sort, you probably shouldn't be buying anything but a top tier PCP anyway, in my opinion, but that's a whole other topic. The Barra 250z is the perfect project gun to me, something different, and very cool in its own way, and capable.

Yes, I had the same issues, with the Picatinny rails, flimsy fore end etc.. I bought a single piece mount and couldn’t use it. As you know I agree with 99% of everything you post LOL. But not in this case, just my opinion but I think the Barra 250z is a good choice for someone’s first PCP rifle. I believe that the average purchaser is a shooter and not an enthusiast like most of the airgun enthusiasts on here. They are going to be happy to have a very accurate rifle, that is easy to fill and be thrilled with the “advanced” features of a tunable regulator and hammer spring. The average buyer is never going to contemplate porting a gun and would be horrified if they knew long term ownership probably required changing a lot of o-rings . If I’d purchased the 250z first I think I would have enjoyed it and realized that I wanted more and progressed the same way that I have. I say all of that with the caveat that the purchaser receives a gun in full working order. If I’d purchased the Talon P first, I’m not sure I’d have continued climbing the ladder. I’m not knocking the quality of the gun. But, 10 -12 shots between fills, dovetails etc and the fact that it starts at $500 and takes about $200 to make it as functional as the 250z kind of eliminates it as a first gun for the average first timer. I’m not discounting any of your opinions, just offering another perspective - not necessarily a better perspective. I like my Air Force, but if it was my only PCP, I’d be an occasional air gunner, I’m not referring to the other Air Force rifles, but how many people spend $700 plus on their first PCP? All of our experiences have differed somewhat. I’ve never done any internal mods to my 250z and it has plenty of power and a decent shot count. It’s very accurate with pellets, and adequately accurate (for me) with slugs. It can launch a lead pellet well over 1000fps straight out of the box. I don’t even bother with the hammer spring much now. Ok in all fairness, I’m not shooting it much right now LOL. I wish I could compare it to the entry level Benjamins, Gauntlets, JTS Airacuda, Notos, Diana, etc., but I don’t have any those, but they’re it’s real competition.

 

[Cantona256]

Yes, I had the same issues, with the Picatinny rails, flimsy fore end etc.. I bought a single piece mount and couldn’t use it. As you know I agree with 99% of everything you post LOL. But not in this case, just my opinion but I think the Barra 250z is a good choice for someone’s first PCP rifle. I believe that the average purchaser is a shooter and not an enthusiast like most of the airgun enthusiasts on here. They are going to be happy to have a very accurate rifle, that is easy to fill and be thrilled with the “advanced” features of a tunable regulator and hammer spring. The average buyer is never going to contemplate porting a gun and would be horrified if they knew long term ownership probably required changing a lot of o-rings . If I’d purchased the 250z first I think I would have enjoyed it and realized that I wanted more and progressed the same way that I have. I say all of that with the caveat that the purchaser receives a gun in full working order. If I’d purchased the Talon P first, I’m not sure I’d have continued climbing the ladder. I’m not knocking the quality of the gun. But, 10 -12 shots between fills, dovetails etc and the fact that it starts at $500 and takes about $200 to make it as functional as the 250z kind of eliminates it as a first gun for the average first timer. I’m not discounting any of your opinions, just offering another perspective - not necessarily a better perspective. I like my Air Force, but if it was my only PCP, I’d be an occasional air gunner, I’m not referring to the other Air Force rifles, but how many people spend $700 plus on their first PCP? All of our experiences have differed somewhat. I’ve never done any internal mods to my 250z and it has plenty of power and a decent shot count. It’s very accurate with pellets, and adequately accurate (for me) with slugs. It can launch a lead pellet well over 1000fps straight out of the box. I don’t even bother with the hammer spring much now. Ok in all fairness, I’m not shooting it much right now LOL. I wish I could compare it to the entry level Benjamins, Gauntlets, JTS Airacuda, Notos, Diana, etc., but I don’t have any those, but they’re it’s real competition.

Yeah I agree. With most of what you’re saying about the barra and in my post I said a something similar…To shoot pellets right out of the box with a lot of power while looking cool this gun is awesome. I also think that with the .25 you can through those 26gr HBT/hybrid slugs and evaporate every critter within 150y of your house if you want.

I just don’t think it’s a good first “real” slug gun. Until a plenum mod is available you’re not gonna shoot heavy slugs very efficiently in my opinion…. But also because it’s new. We’ve all had at least a little quality control issues and this forum is now probably the single biggest source about tuning info on this gun. Porting the valves can be done pretty easy but if this is your first pcp how do you even knew which ones to do? I found out from a post by @Pumacarl and a video by @Northeastbeast … this gun is a hit sales-wise so I wouldn’t be surprised if in a couple years this gun will be like the gauntlet or notos with a bunch of easy mods. Then for the aspiring tuner I’d say go for it. Because the actual gun itself is simple. Once I got past the fear of taking it apart and “ruining” it really easy.

I’ve had a couple friends shoot my gun recently and one drilled a squirrel with it and they both were like “woah.” That’s a fun feeling. To show someone an air rifle and exceed their expectations. They are both thinking about gun shopping but my advice to them has been to buy a used gun off the classified. Carefully of course. I’m not convinced either one wants to be a full on tuner so buying a well loved gun that’s already been tuned is a safe choice. In fact that’s probably what I’ll do for my next one. I wanna shoot/analyze a gun that someone has already tuned just to see what that’s like. Then I’ll probably retune the whole thing again just for fun.

I’ve never shot an Air Force gun so I can comment but I 100% will get ahold of a .257 at some point. A cheeky little 200-300y slug shooter like that would be rad. I’d probably only use it to run more traditional coyote stands (I only use the 250z for night stands) so 8-12 shots is fine. But like pumacarl said I think it really helps if you have a specific purpose for the gun.

 

[Cantona256]

OK, time for an update I guess. Since I have had this gun in its final form and tune for a while now, and the problems that I had are a memory, I will re-grade this gun, my gun, done up my way, shooting JSB KO'S, a solid B+. If the picatinny rails maintained spec between the halves, and they would've used standard threading for folding stocks and pellets couldn't fall down inside with the singles tray, it would be an A+ at its price point. Not being able to scope swap bugs me the most out of these issues.

Still, this thing is such a laser now, and it has changed the way that I think about .22 caliber. At the 45fpe level it has much more in common with other .25 caliber airguns than what I think of as a regular 32fpe .22. I love shooting this gun! I very much notice the increased speed and bc benefits of slugs, especially since having shot about 60 tins of pellets at the 30ish fpe level over the past 8 years. This is just so much more fun to shoot, and I was not expecting that at all. I know there are a lot of people on these forums who have been shooting top tier .22 RAW's and FX's at high power for a while now, but I was not one of them, so the actual difference surprised me.

@Cantona256 did awesome work on his, for his first PCP, but he is a machinist, and he doesn't recommend this as a first PCP, and neither do I, unless you really just like working on and learning new things. If you're not the tinkering sort, you probably shouldn't be buying anything but a top tier PCP anyway, in my opinion, but that's a whole other topic. The Barra 250z is the perfect project gun to me, something different, and very cool in its own way, and capable.

You’ve put in a ton of work on your barra and I know it’s been really frustrating at times. So it makes me really happy to hear how much fun you’re having with it now. You’ve earned it.

 

[Pumacarl]

Yes, I had the same issues, with the Picatinny rails, flimsy fore end etc.. I bought a single piece mount and couldn’t use it. As you know I agree with 99% of everything you post LOL. But not in this case, just my opinion but I think the Barra 250z is a good choice for someone’s first PCP rifle. I believe that the average purchaser is a shooter and not an enthusiast like most of the airgun enthusiasts on here. They are going to be happy to have a very accurate rifle, that is easy to fill and be thrilled with the “advanced” features of a tunable regulator and hammer spring. The average buyer is never going to contemplate porting a gun and would be horrified if they knew long term ownership probably required changing a lot of o-rings . If I’d purchased the 250z first I think I would have enjoyed it and realized that I wanted more and progressed the same way that I have. I say all of that with the caveat that the purchaser receives a gun in full working order. If I’d purchased the Talon P first, I’m not sure I’d have continued climbing the ladder. I’m not knocking the quality of the gun. But, 10 -12 shots between fills, dovetails etc and the fact that it starts at $500 and takes about $200 to make it as functional as the 250z kind of eliminates it as a first gun for the average first timer. I’m not discounting any of your opinions, just offering another perspective - not necessarily a better perspective. I like my Air Force, but if it was my only PCP, I’d be an occasional air gunner, I’m not referring to the other Air Force rifles, but how many people spend $700 plus on their first PCP? All of our experiences have differed somewhat. I’ve never done any internal mods to my 250z and it has plenty of power and a decent shot count. It’s very accurate with pellets, and adequately accurate (for me) with slugs. It can launch a lead pellet well over 1000fps straight out of the box. I don’t even bother with the hammer spring much now. Ok in all fairness, I’m not shooting it much right now LOL. I wish I could compare it to the entry level Benjamins, Gauntlets, JTS Airacuda, Notos, Diana, etc., but I don’t have any those, but they’re it’s real competition.

@Billm, I get what you're saying but you're not talking about yourself, as even you note. You are not average at all, you've detailed your history enough to really show that. Second, there is no average airgunner on any of these forums. If some individual on their own, showed up here looking to learn about the sport, they are already leaps and bounds above the Walmart springer shooter. Everyone reading these threads are enthusiasts, or they wouldn't be here reading at all. I don't post for Joe Public/lifetime firearms shooters, who just showed up and wants to compare and contrast platforms, there is only endless and mindless disagreement doing that, usually by people who have never done what they want to argue about.

I just don't want to de-rail a new enthusiasts excitement by starting them at the middle and saying that this product actually works as well as buying top tier, when it doesn't really represent top tier at all, even though with work, or even luck, it can shoot that way. If someone new has the patience to start at the bottom and learn the basics, or the money to start at the top and buy quality, they are better off in both instances. Again, and this all comes back to who is looking to buy this gun, and why. There is no such thing as a universal good deal, just a good deal for what you want, and that only happens when you understand what that is, what you want to learn, and do, or pay for. People who are handy, with tools, (or worked in the hobby industry for 20+ years) may be all right starting in the middle, but I would guess that even the 'average enthusiast' doesn't measure up to that.

New guys that don't want to spend big bucks, or turn a screwdriver, are always going to be in a bind, and it is a challenge that often involves some luck, for them to figure out that this sport is totally worth it, whether it's time or money. Starting really simple, or way at the top, is a good way to maximize the fun.

In the end, it's impossible to recommend anything unless you really know someone, and they know themselves. That's probably why airgunners tend to be older too. We all eventually get our sh!t together and figure out what's important to us.

 

[Billm]

@Billm, I get what you're saying but you're not talking about yourself, as even you note. You are not average at all, you've detailed your history enough to really show that. Second, there is no average airgunner on any of these forums. If some individual on their own, showed up here looking to learn about the sport, they are already leaps and bounds above the Walmart springer shooter. Everyone reading these threads are enthusiasts, or they wouldn't be here reading at all. I don't post for Joe Public/lifetime firearms shooters, who just showed up and wants to compare and contrast platforms, there is only endless and mindless disagreement doing that, usually by people who have never done what they want to argue about.

I just don't want to de-rail a new enthusiasts excitement by starting them at the middle and saying that this product actually works as well as buying top tier, when it doesn't really represent top tier at all, even though with work, or even luck, it can shoot that way. If someone new has the patience to start at the bottom and learn the basics, or the money to start at the top and buy quality, they are better off in both instances. Again, and this all comes back to who is looking to buy this gun, and why. There is no such thing as a universal good deal, just a good deal for what you want, and that only happens when you understand what that is, what you want to learn, and do, or pay for. People who are handy, with tools, (or worked in the hobby industry for 20+ years) may be all right starting in the middle, but I would guess that even the 'average enthusiast' doesn't measure up to that.

New guys that don't want to spend big bucks, or turn a screwdriver, are always going to be in a bind, and it is a challenge that often involves some luck, for them to figure out that this sport is totally worth it, whether it's time or money. Starting really simple, or way at the top, is a good way to maximize the fun.

In the end, it's impossible to recommend anything unless you really know someone, and they know themselves. That's probably why airgunners tend to be older too. We all eventually get our sh!t together and figure out what's important to us.

@Pumacarl point taken. You’re right, none of these PCP’s are really an entry level gun. The PCP is really an advanced level in of itself and you really don’t get exposed to them unless you’re involved in the hobby. It makes for a great discussion.