250Z 250Z tuning, mainly slugs.

[Bladefin]

I read about that. I'm hoping to get the big hybrid at least and then maybe I can make it undesirable enough that they move to another area.

For eveyday shooting, I have the perfect spot under my deck. The problem is at a level 25yrds it's somewhere between 21 and 24 feet to the ground. I'm thinking a cable and pulley system for targets is the only solution. If I do that I could probably get setup with everything from 10 to 40-45 yards, if I cut a few limbs.

This is a pic from under the deck.

 

[Bladefin]

Got my 1st kill with the Barra. Bagged a Grey squirrel at 25ish yards. Thought I just clipped it the way it ran off and I was shooting off hand. I also haven't shot it after raising the pressure up to 2600psi. A couple other squirrels came to check out what happened to their partner and I could have got another but I want to check if it was still alive to dispatch it if needed.

The shot went in just behind and below a front shoulder. It came its chest off center towards the other shoulder. The slug basically blew its chest out and the thwack it made on impact was incredible. Glad I was shooting downward and it was clear down range!



I threw the carcass about 40yrds from the deck and I can see it fine from there. Gonna free feed the yotes till their used to it. Then I'm gonna tie a carcas down and make the yotes stop for a second. Might do that once or twice too. Then it's game on.

 

[Bladefin]

Got all the Rouge parts in and opened the thimble. Didn't feel like stoning the sear, but I'll get to it at some point.

Looking forward to seeing how it does. The trigger is so much better than stock. That by itself will make the gun more fun to shoot.

 

[Bladefin]

I didn't have time to do any bench testing this weekend but from the deck it was shooting a little high. I had set the reg at a little less than 2500 and with the slug kit in I started right back at flush with the hammer spring. So that's 150~200psi less and it seems like there is definitely more power and it also seems like I'm getting more shots, without a firm count.

I did get two more squirrels and was hitting whatever I wanted to inside of 30yrds. Several hits on golf balls with a couple dead center. I hope to have some more time later this week to sit at a table and get the FPS with a full shot count per fill. If the weather permits I'll get it done after work tomorrow or Wednesday.

 

[Cantona256]

Got my 1st kill with the Barra. Bagged a Grey squirrel at 25ish yards. Thought I just clipped it the way it ran off and I was shooting off hand. I also haven't shot it after raising the pressure up to 2600psi. A couple other squirrels came to check out what happened to their partner and I could have got another but I want to check if it was still alive to dispatch it if needed.

The shot went in just behind and below a front shoulder. It came its chest off center towards the other shoulder. The slug basically blew its chest out and the thwack it made on impact was incredible. Glad I was shooting downward and it was clear down range!

View attachment 13523

I threw the carcass about 40yrds from the deck and I can see it fine from there. Gonna free feed the yotes till their used to it. Then I'm gonna tie a carcas down and make the yotes stop for a second. Might do that once or twice too. Then it's game on.

Hell yeah bro! Remind me again what weight slug you’re shooting? I have found that my heavier ones going slower pass through. The 30/31gr going real fast don’t. The expansion is unreal.
Nice shot! Always happy to see another brother in arms against the the tree rats.

 

[Cantona256]

I didn't have time to do any bench testing this weekend but from the deck it was shooting a little high. I had set the reg at a little less than 2500 and with the slug kit in I started right back at flush with the hammer spring. So that's 150~200psi less and it seems like there is definitely more power and it also seems like I'm getting more shots, without a firm count.

I did get two more squirrels and was hitting whatever I wanted to inside of 30yrds. Several hits on golf balls with a couple dead center. I hope to have some more time later this week to sit at a table and get the FPS with a full shot count per fill. If the weather permits I'll get it done after work tomorrow or Wednesday.

Based off what I saw after doing the thimble valve these numbers check out to me.

 

[Cantona256]

Cleaning:

I’ve shot at least 2000 slugs through the gun in like 7-8 weeks and I never cleaned it when I got it. Do y’all think a bronze cleaning brush would be too abrasive?

 

[Pumacarl]

Cleaning:

I’ve shot at least 2000 slugs through the gun in like 7-8 weeks and I never cleaned it when I got it. Do y’all think a bronze cleaning brush would be too abrasive?

I really don't want to get near this discussion, again, for the 1,000th time, because it usually starts a $h!t storm! Here goes 1,001. Some manufacturers won't warranty their barrels (Volquartsen) if you use a brush; some manufactures (Time Precision) told me at a match (which he won) while running a brush through his barrel that a good barrel can take a good brushing. Some people will show you pictures from borescopes showing the damage done by brushes; some will show you pictures that look the same by barrels that win matches. Bottom line, just make sure to use a good rod, with a good technique, or don't, just use a pull through. In other words, figure out what works for you, that you are willing to do, and that gives you the confidence that you did the best that you were willing to do, to shoot well. Let everybody else pull out their hair and wail about the barrel abrasion atrocities going on, and the bad advice, and to only use the smooth side of a cleaning patch (ffs), and just live your life. Tune it out, and you do you. You've been doing great so far, and you're lucky if you haven't cleaned yet and shot 2000 slugs. Luck is a great thing to have, that usually has nothing to do with chance.

Sorry if I went off the rails, been around too many of these discussions. Hard Air Magazine actually has some of the nicer conversations about these topics than any of the other airgun forums that I have been around so far. I hope it stays that way.

To actually take a stab at answering your question: if you still have acceptable accuracy after shooting 2000 slugs, you are obviously not building up lead in your barrel, so I wouldn't bother with a brush until I thought that pull throughs were not working. If and when you actually start to lose accuracy, and you will know it when you see it, and just pulling patches doesn't get your accuracy back, that is when you break out a bronze brush. You don't seem to need it yet to me, but that's your call. Don't worry about numbers, just look at the groups. You've got one of the best slug barrels on a cheap gun that I have heard of yet, making it to 2K slugs, before even thinking about it, congratulations!

 

[Bladefin]

Hell yeah bro! Remind me again what weight slug you’re shooting? I have found that my heavier ones going slower pass through. The 30/31gr going real fast don’t. The expansion is unreal.
Nice shot! Always happy to see another brother in arms against the the tree rats.

Right now I bouncing between the Apolo 33 & H&N 34. Once I can bench it at over 30yrds I'll either make the final pick, or buy more. While it'll be some time till I can get the target setup up on a paracord system, I may take it over to my neighbors across the street and shoot there. He's also got some squirrels to dispatch.

I really don't want to get near this discussion, again, for the 1,000th time, because it usually starts a $h!t storm! Here goes 1,001. Some manufacturers won't warranty their barrels (Volquartsen) if you use a brush; some manufactures (Time Precision) told me at a match (which he won) while running a brush through his barrel that a good barrel can take a good brushing. Some people will show you pictures from borescopes showing the damage done by brushes; some will show you pictures that look the same by barrels that win matches. Bottom line, just make sure to use a good rod, with a good technique, or don't, just use a pull through. In other words, figure out what works for you, that you are willing to do, and that gives you the confidence that you did the best that you were willing to do, to shoot well. Let everybody else pull out their hair and wail about the barrel abrasion atrocities going on, and the bad advice, and to only use the smooth side a cleaning patch (ffs), and just live your life. Tune it out, and you do you. You've been doing great so far, and you're lucky if you haven't cleaned yet and shot 2000 slugs. Luck is a great thing to have, that usually has nothing to do with chance.

Sorry if I went off the rails, been around too many of these discussions. Hard Air Magazine actually has some of the nicer conversations about these topics than any of the other airgun forums that I have been around so far. I hope it stays that way.

To actually take a stab at answering your question: if you still have acceptable accuracy after shooting 2000 slugs, you are obviously not building up lead in your barrel, so I wouldn't bother with a brush until I thought that pull throughs were not working. If and when you actually start to lose accuracy, and you will know it when you see it, and just pulling patches doesn't get your accuracy back, that is when you break out a bronze brush. You don't seem to need it yet to me, but that's your call. Don't worry about numbers, just look at the groups. You've got one of the best slug barrels on a cheap gun that I have heard of yet, making it to 2K slugs, before even thinking about it, congratulations!

I don't have a puller yet, or brushes in 25 cal. While I had it apart I did push some patches though it with JB. The pusher I have is for a .177 and the only .22's I have are threaded wrong. So with the .177 I used a bigger patch that allowed resistance going through. With handguns I always clean with bronze brushes and keep a bore snake with me when out shooting.

I have fire through wool patch pellets and have used a couple and I think @Cantona256 mentioned he's done that too. I don't think my mind would allow me to go much past 500 rounds without cleaning.

 

[Pumacarl]

Right now I bouncing between the Apolo 33 & H&N 34. Once I can bench it at over 30yrds I'll either make the final pick, or buy more. While it'll be some time till I can get the target setup up on a paracord system, I may take it over to my neighbors across the street and shoot there. He's also got some squirrels to dispatch.


I don't have a puller yet, or brushes in 25 cal. While I had it apart I did push some patches though it with JB. The pusher I have is for a .177 and the only .22's I have are threaded wrong. So with the .177 I used a bigger patch that allowed resentence going through. With handguns I always clean with bronze brushes and keep a bore snake with me when out shooting.

I have fire through wool patch pellets and have used a couple and I think @Cantona256 mentioned he's done that too. I don't think my mind would allow me to go much past 500 rounds without cleaning.

Seriously, don't mess with success. Coming from firearms it's hard to do at first, to not clean your barrel, but don't do it until your accuracy starts to degrade. Airguns don't have powder residue, unburnt powder, melted lead to deal with, the heat or the pressure. You simply don't need to clean them all the time, and could actually screw up accuracy doing so. Wait for the gun to tell you. In Cantona256's case, if he was shooting pellets, he would probably never have to clean his barrel. There are some people on these forums who have airguns that never need barrel cleaning. It happens. I have noticed over the years, that a lot of people who say they never have to clean their barrels are shooting AA-510's with pellets of course. It is rarer, but I have heard of a few people who don't have to clean their barrels when shooting slugs for thousands of shots. It looks like Cantona256 is in this club now too, we'll see if that holds. Yours might be as good as his, so just wait and see what happens. Airgun barrels don't wear either, cleaning an airgun barrel creates more wear than a pellet ever will. Just pulling patches through the bore is usually enough when accuracy does fade, even for slug shooters.

 

[Bladefin]

Seriously, don't mess with success. Coming from firearms it's hard to do at first, to not clean your barrel, but don't do it until your accuracy starts to degrade. Airguns don't have powder residue, unburnt powder, melted lead to deal with, the heat or the pressure. You simply don't need to clean them all the time, and could actually screw up accuracy doing so. Wait for the gun to tell you. In Cantona256's case, if he was shooting pellets, he would probably never have to clean his barrel. There are some people on these forums who have airguns that never need barrel cleaning. It happens. I have noticed over the years, that a lot of people who say they never have to clean their barrels are shooting AA-510's with pellets of course. It is rarer, but I have heard of a few people who don't have to clean their barrels when shooting slugs for thousands of shots. It looks like Cantona256 is in this club now too, we'll see if that holds. Yours might be as good as his, so just wait and see what happens. Airgun barrels don't wear either, cleaning an airgun barrel creates more wear than a pellet ever will. Just pulling patches through the bore is usually enough when accuracy does fade, even for slug shooters.

All I can say is this is the most accurate sub $450 gun I've shot, air or powder. If I do my part the gun does the rest. I'll follow your advice and just keep shooting.

 

[Cantona256]

Seriously, don't mess with success. Coming from firearms it's hard to do at first, to not clean your barrel, but don't do it until your accuracy starts to degrade. Airguns don't have powder residue, unburnt powder, melted lead to deal with, the heat or the pressure. You simply don't need to clean them all the time, and could actually screw up accuracy doing so. Wait for the gun to tell you. In Cantona256's case, if he was shooting pellets, he would probably never have to clean his barrel. There are some people on these forums who have airguns that never need barrel cleaning. It happens. I have noticed over the years, that a lot of people who say they never have to clean their barrels are shooting AA-510's with pellets of course. It is rarer, but I have heard of a few people who don't have to clean their barrels when shooting slugs for thousands of shots. It looks like Cantona256 is in this club now too, we'll see if that holds. Yours might be as good as his, so just wait and see what happens. Airgun barrels don't wear either, cleaning an airgun barrel creates more wear than a pellet ever will. Just pulling patches through the bore is usually enough when accuracy does fade, even for slug shooters.

Yeah I was shooting pellets I wouldn’t consider cleaning the barrel unless it became really noticeable or maybe like 4-5k pellets.

The 250z for all of its idiosyncrasies is low key a tank. It’ll shoot almost anything you put in it and it’ll do it without much fuss. Only reason cleaning it now is I noticed a few fliers..and my groups just started getting a little sloppier. The only reason I even noticed is because it’s so accurate most of the time.

I’m not complaining at all considering how many slugs I’ve already put through the thing. Plus is use this gun hard. I shoot it a lot, in all weather but rain, constant elevation changes and getting lugged around in sage and desert all the time. Honestly beyond how well it shoots that’s probably its biggest strength. If you’re a hunter it will not let you down.

 

[Cantona256]

All I can say is this is the most accurate sub $450 gun I've shot, air or powder. If I do my part the gun does the rest. I'll follow your advice and just keep shooting.

I’m with you dude. I’ve shot quite a few powder burner rifles in my life. I grew up on military bases so there was lots of opportunity. I even shot a few really nice ones. Nothing set up for extreme accuracy though.. as far as air rifles go the nicest I’ve shot is my friends Gauntlet 2 .30… he ordered his directly from Hajimoto all set up to launch the 78gr boattails. It’s really nice. But it’s also a $1500 gun. The fact that my little Barra is even in the conversation is wild…but because it’s so much more versatile and easy to carry I shoot 1000% more critters than him haha.

On a side note he put one of those into a jack rabbit… excuse me through both shoulder bones and it still had enough power to make the ricochet sound afterwards. The thwack was unreal. It might be a religious experience for me when he puts one of those into coyote.

 

[Cantona256]

Finally cleaned my barrel today and OMG I’m not waiting another 2k slugs to clean it again. Hahaha I’m surprised the gun was even shooting with how much gunk was in there.

 

[Cantona256]

Also,

I ordered some airshootist reg butter today. Before I do anything else I’m gonna take the reg apart, polish it with polishing paper, hit it with the reg butter and rebuild it. Not expecting anything amazing to happen just showing my gun some love. As I’ve said before I ask a lot of this thing so I’m really just looking for more consistency and balance. I’ve also noticed the recharge rate on my gun is a little slow so I’m hoping this will help.

I’m kinda just going through the stages of tuning with this gun and learning how to fine tune parts of an air rifle in general. If you think I talk a lot on here pray for the people who have to be around me IRL. Im annoying AF … slowly but surely though I’m convincing my friends and cousins to get into this life . So I figure I might as well learn as much as possible so I can help them tune their stuff.

 

[Dogowski]

Well, the weather isn't playing nice here in North Georgia. I'm going to have short windows to get out there today. Maybe tomorrow will be better.

One of the things I neglected to say was that I have limited level shooting lanes here. I was able to range find and mark off 25 & 50 yard spots. But they aren't from the same shooting position. It will take me 20 minutes to get setup with a table and chair.
Most of my critter shooting will most likely be from my deck and all of the shots will be at a 10° to 35° down angle. But I want to sight in on level terrain first then get an idea what changes from the deck. The range finder I have has both the degrees of angle and equivalent yards with straight line yards. So that should help.

This is my view from the deck.
View attachment 13365
View attachment 13367View attachment 13366

To the left there are houses about 120 yards away with the closest back yard at 80ish. To the right is a vacant wooded 5 acre lot. It's all completely up hill from a creek just behind the closest trees, that creates a natural berm. But level shots from the center of the deck left are a no go and anything above a couple degrees up to the right can clear the hill, also a no go. Until the leaves fall off the trees I can't be 100% certain I'm shooting safely. We love the lot we have, it's just not the best for safe level shooting unless I go down behind the retaining wall.

Beautiful view from up there!

 

[Pumacarl]

Finally cleaned my barrel today and OMG I’m not waiting another 2k slugs to clean it again. Hahaha I’m surprised the gun was even shooting with how much gunk was in there.

I still think that if the accuracy hasn't changed, then you shouldn't worry about changing the condition of the bore, because that change will change something else. I am not saying to be slovenly, just don't look to be messing with what works because you're bored and lookin for something to do next. Get another airgun and work on that instead.
,

 

[Bladefin]

I didn't have time to shoot yesterday. I'm going to try and get some in tonight after work. I'm only going to be able to do it then and tomorrow for a little bit. After that I'm going to be near @Billm 's neck of the woods for several days over the holiday weekend. I see they opened up Red Snapper for this weekend and I'm hoping to weasel my way onto a charter.

At the bare min I'd like to get some FPS readings after the porting and hammer spring at 2500psi before I leave.

 

[Cantona256]

I still think that if the accuracy hasn't changed, then you shouldn't worry about changing the condition of the bore, because that change will change something else. I am not saying to be slovenly, just don't look to be messing with what works because you're bored and lookin for something to do next. Get another airgun and work on that instead.
,

Completely agree. I’m not putting this on any kind of schedule. I only did it because I was getting a noticeable change in accuracy without touching other settings… the Franco slugs look much cleaner than any other ones I tried so now that I’ve settled on them I reckon it’ll be awhile before this is even needed again.

 

[Bladefin]

I'm also ordering 500 feet of paracord and some pulleys next week. I hope to have the target retrieval in place by mid June. Then I will be able to shoot pretty much whenever I want and preform much better testing at distances of at least 40, if not 60 yards. It will just depend on how clean I line a can run.
I've also got to get my climbing stand back from a buddy, those wheels are already in motion.