250Z 250Z tuning, mainly slugs.

[Cantona256]

Part of getting a new airgun for me involves a severe cleaning of the bore, finishing with JB bore paste and bore brite. I don't ever recall noticing much of a difference after in anything, it gets broken in right up front with all the cleaning and polishing. If I stay with the same pellet brand, once sighted in, that's has good as it is ever going to be. External effects like temperature and weather are always going to change things up, but the gun itself doesn't seem to break in to me, I think that's a myth of people just getting comfortable with their gun, not the gun itself changing. These are not firearms, they are not constantly eroding away from 55,000psi pressures and heat. I've lost track of how many 10's of thousands of pellets i have shot out of my Gauntlet and it still shoots the same. Even leading in the barrel of a pcp is generally unneccessary. A springer is different, there is extreme heat for a fraction of a second and I definately had to lead in my barrel on those, or season it, as they say. That's part of the reason I don't miss shooting those that much. People still argue over this stuff, too funny.

I bet you’re right. I’m just noticing that my speeds with these Franco slugs are faster than expected. I’m not complaining except that this gun shoots so many different weight slugs well it’s really hard to pick haha. For now I’m staying 30/31 but who knows after I port the gun.

On a side note: new PR with my brown beauty today. 74.6 yards on this squirrel in some light wind. Sadly no scope cam because I’m selling that scope. I’ll have the Zulus up and running next week.

 

[Pumacarl]

@Bladefin
Dieseling rarely occurs in pcp's, that happens in springers because of the flash heat of the compression. Barra is most likely assuming everyone is stupid, instead of explaining themselves, they just put out a blanket statement, that says "don't do 'X'", seriously. What they didn't want to bother to teach you about is how you do not want oil to get into your airgun. Real petroleum based oil can screw up orings, and pcp airguns are all about orings. If you take your barrel off you can clean it any way you like so long as you put it back in close to completely dry. There is an oring in the breech that you want to keep some silicone oil on, very little, but that's it. If you use a pull through patch with anything on it, it is safe to put the gun upside down for the pulls and fire off a shot of air before flipping it back around to make sure nothing went down the port, but this is not really neccessary. But yeah, don't use, or rather leave, any oil in the barrel, you can run these guns dry for a long time. The last patch you pull should be a dry one, in other words. To be clear though, don't use petroleum based oil, there is no need. Just get some Ballistol.

 

[Cantona256]

@Bladefin
Dieseling rarely occurs in pcp's, that happens in springers because of the flash heat of the compression. Barra is most likely assuming everyone is stupid, instead of explaining themselves, they just put out a blanket statement, that says "don't do 'X'", seriously. What they didn't want to bother to teach you about is how you do not want oil to get into your airgun. Real petroleum based oil can screw up orings, and pcp airguns are all about orings. If you take your barrel off you can clean it any way you like so long as you put it back in close to completely dry. There is an oring in the breech that you want to keep some silicone oil on, very little, but that's it. If you use a pull through patch with anything on it, it is safe to put the gun upside down for the pulls and fire off a shot of air before flipping it back around to make sure nothing went down the port, but this is not really neccessary. But yeah, don't use, or rather leave, any oil in the barrel, you can run these guns dry for a long time. The last patch you pull should be a dry one, in other words. To be clear though, don't use petroleum based oil, there is no need. Just get some Ballistol.

To be honest I don’t even run patches. About every 100/150 slugs I fire a couple of those cotton cleaning pellets and my accuracy goes right back to normal haha. Should I be pulling patches on top of that? Leading in a barrel isn’t helpful for slugs like it is for pellets right? I do clean it and check the o-rings though. Really harsh environment here in the sw Utah high desert. But at least the air is always dry which I know is good for our guns.

All things aside this gun is everything I hoped I would get and to be honest even more. I did a lot more fussing around with it than needed because I’m demanding and am asking 1 gun to do a lot of things, which I know is not how most pcps are treated. I can’t even imagine what shooting a truly top tier gun is like haha. This 250z already shoots better than I expected.

 

[Cantona256]

Any of yall coming to Utah for RMAC?

 

[Pumacarl]

No, I will be happy with just hanging out at The BeACh this fall, for a day. I hope they have a good turnout, it is so soon after EBR maybe some will just head right over. As a spectator, I'll do a state or two, but that's about it.

 

[Pumacarl]

To be honest I don’t even run patches. About every 100/150 slugs I fire a couple of those cotton cleaning pellets and my accuracy goes right back to normal haha. Should I be pulling patches on top of that? Leading in a barrel isn’t helpful for slugs like it is for pellets right? I do clean it and check the o-rings though. Really harsh environment here in the sw Utah high desert. But at least the air is always dry which I know is good for our guns.

All things aside this gun is everything I hoped I would get and to be honest even more. I did a lot more fussing around with it than needed because I’m demanding and am asking 1 gun to do a lot of things, which I know is not how most pcps are treated. I can’t even imagine what shooting a truly top tier gun is like haha. This 250z already shoots better than I expected.

Top tier don't necessarily shoot any better, though hopefully they will do so for much longer, in more varied conditions, and are more resilient. They are almost always smoother shooting. The MA2 Macavity is a smooth shooter and it's sub-$500. The thing really nice about a top tier airgun is taking them apart. Everything is so well machined and solid that it is way easier to work on. All PCP airguns will eventually need to be resealed and the really high end guns make this simple. Tuners and airgunsmiths should actually charge more to work on a low end gun than a high end one. It is much harder to work on thin tubed poorly machined examples with bad designs. I am truly shocked and impressed by how well some really cheap airguns shoot pellets. My Vectis is very inexpensive and it even shoots slugs well. If you're really careful with them they will last just about forever too.

Going top tier is a nice thing to do, but don't feel like you are missing out on anything. You're having as good a time as anybody in the sport right now, doing what you're doing, with what you've got. After you've moved up, you will most likely circle back to it, or regret having gotten rid of it.

Pulling a tight patch is what I prefer to do, but I don't know if it's actually better. If your accuracy comes back, that's all that matters, and what you are after anyways.

 

[Cantona256]

Yeah it would be hard to have more fun than I am right now haha.. really excited to put this Zulus on it. Gonna put a good reticle on it and actually start getting my dope figured out to at least 120-130…. The other thing that has exceeded expectation is the stopping power of these slugs. Even at 75 yards the slug hit so hard the squirrel just slumped over. No flopping around or trying to run. I love to hunt but I want what I shoot to die as quickly and painlessly as possible.

 

[Bladefin]

Well, the weather isn't playing nice here in North Georgia. I'm going to have short windows to get out there today. Maybe tomorrow will be better.

One of the things I neglected to say was that I have limited level shooting lanes here. I was able to range find and mark off 25 & 50 yard spots. But they aren't from the same shooting position. It will take me 20 minutes to get setup with a table and chair.
Most of my critter shooting will most likely be from my deck and all of the shots will be at a 10° to 35° down angle. But I want to sight in on level terrain first then get an idea what changes from the deck. The range finder I have has both the degrees of angle and equivalent yards with straight line yards. So that should help.

This is my view from the deck.



To the left there are houses about 120 yards away with the closest back yard at 80ish. To the right is a vacant wooded 5 acre lot. It's all completely up hill from a creek just behind the closest trees, that creates a natural berm. But level shots from the center of the deck left are a no go and anything above a couple degrees up to the right can clear the hill, also a no go. Until the leaves fall off the trees I can't be 100% certain I'm shooting safely. We love the lot we have, it's just not the best for safe level shooting unless I go down behind the retaining wall.

 

[Bladefin]

I've got several questions that have come to mind. But I'd like to start with this. I see a lot of posts regarding exact pressures on the reg. The gauges on this gun don't have the best resolution. Are you guys just using a rough ball park or is there another tool to get a more precise reg pressure?

On the filling side, I used the Vevor pump for the 1st time last night and I had to go a few hundred psi higher than 3600psi on its auto shutoff gauge to get the gun to slightly past the 3500 mark on the gun. So, which gauge should I trust?

 

[Pumacarl]

I've got several questions that have come to mind. But I'd like to start with this. I see a lot of posts regarding exact pressures on the reg. The gauges on this gun don't have the best resolution. Are you guys just using a rough ball park or is there another tool to get a more precise reg pressure?

On the filling side, I used the Vevor pump for the 1st time last night and I had to go a few hundred psi higher than 3600psi on its auto shutoff gauge to get the gun to slightly past the 3500 mark on the gun. So, which gauge should I trust?

The reg pressure is just something that you need to keep track of for your gun and settings you try. Read the gauge as accurately as you can and be as consistent with how you read it as you can.

Which gauge to trust is a very good question! The first thing that I would do is to shoot your gun down past the regulator setting over a chronograph so you know when you're past the regulated zone, and check if the gauges on your gun now match each other. If they match, then pump up your gun and watch the gauge on your pump to see where it stops moving up quickly and then check to see if that pressure matches your gun's pressure gauge. If it doesn't, run with the lower number until you can get more gauges to test against, or go to some place that does fills and ask them to check your gauge.

It can be tricky at first. There is another way, but I don't like doing it because it isn't that precise either, but it is definite.

[EDITED OUT ORIGINAL PARAGRAPH, IF YOU READ IT JUST FORGET IT]

 

[Cantona256]

Well, the weather isn't playing nice here in North Georgia. I'm going to have short windows to get out there today. Maybe tomorrow will be better.

One of the things I neglected to say was that I have limited level shooting lanes here. I was able to range find and mark off 25 & 50 yard spots. But they aren't from the same shooting position. It will take me 20 minutes to get setup with a table and chair.
Most of my critter shooting will most likely be from my deck and all of the shots will be at a 10° to 35° down angle. But I want to sight in on level terrain first then get an idea what changes from the deck. The range finder I have has both the degrees of angle and equivalent yards with straight line yards. So that should help.

This is my view from the deck.
View attachment 13365
View attachment 13367View attachment 13366

To the left there are houses about 120 yards away with the closest back yard at 80ish. To the right is a vacant wooded 5 acre lot. It's all completely up hill from a creek just behind the closest trees, that creates a natural berm. But level shots from the center of the deck left are a no go and anything above a couple degrees up to the right can clear the hill, also a no go. Until the leaves fall off the trees I can't be 100% certain I'm shooting safely. We love the lot we have, it's just not the best for safe level shooting unless I go down behind the retaining wall.

I feel you on that bro. I live on a mountain directly above the Utah desert. My gun probably wasn’t even level when I zero’d it. I don’t have a magic formula other than practice because shooting up or down changes things. No gun makes it easier than others(other than weight), it’s just practice…. Shooting pellets might be a little more forgiving at first since they just don’t go the distance like slugs. I shoot slugs for the performance at range and wind resistance but that’s because of where I live. The right pellet hits real f***ing hard if you want it to. Out of my Umarex Komplete I used to shoot the gamo red tips. Only like 15gr but with that ballistic tip they were devastating up to 40yards…if I lived in town or a more forested place I’d probably leave the reg at factory and shoot predator polymags or fx hybrids out of this gun. None of this is to dissuade you from shooting slugs at all. Just saying that in my opinion the best option will be tailored to your needs and the environment.

 

[Cantona256]

Well, the weather isn't playing nice here in North Georgia. I'm going to have short windows to get out there today. Maybe tomorrow will be better.

One of the things I neglected to say was that I have limited level shooting lanes here. I was able to range find and mark off 25 & 50 yard spots. But they aren't from the same shooting position. It will take me 20 minutes to get setup with a table and chair.
Most of my critter shooting will most likely be from my deck and all of the shots will be at a 10° to 35° down angle. But I want to sight in on level terrain first then get an idea what changes from the deck. The range finder I have has both the degrees of angle and equivalent yards with straight line yards. So that should help.

This is my view from the deck.
View attachment 13365
View attachment 13367View attachment 13366

To the left there are houses about 120 yards away with the closest back yard at 80ish. To the right is a vacant wooded 5 acre lot. It's all completely up hill from a creek just behind the closest trees, that creates a natural berm. But level shots from the center of the deck left are a no go and anything above a couple degrees up to the right can clear the hill, also a no go. Until the leaves fall off the trees I can't be 100% certain I'm shooting safely. We love the lot we have, it's just not the best for safe level shooting unless I go down behind the retaining wall.

Also,
Do like the Edleshy videos and nail some turf or make a backstop on one of those trees. I’d pic the thicc one to the right of the red bird feeder… throw some seeds and peanut out, hang a spinner target above it to for a convenient way to make sure you’re still on zero. Then set out the tripod and enjoy blasting the varmints that show up to the buffet.

 

[Cantona256]

I've got several questions that have come to mind. But I'd like to start with this. I see a lot of posts regarding exact pressures on the reg. The gauges on this gun don't have the best resolution. Are you guys just using a rough ball park or is there another tool to get a more precise reg pressure?

On the filling side, I used the Vevor pump for the 1st time last night and I had to go a few hundred psi higher than 3600psi on its auto shutoff gauge to get the gun to slightly past the 3500 mark on the gun. So, which gauge should I trust?

Mine is like that as well I trust the gauge in the gun. The pump doesn’t care it’ll go to 4500psi but the gun does care so I just go with that. Especially since my daily commute involves 4K of elevation change and I often hunt after work so I just take it with me.

 

[Cantona256]

The reg pressure is just something that you need to keep track of for your gun and settings you try. Read the gauge as accurately as you can and be as consistent with how you read it as you can.

Which gauge to trust is a very good question! The first thing that I would do is to shoot your gun down past the regulator setting over a chronograph so you know when you're past the regulated zone, and check if the gauges on your gun now match each other. If they match, then pump up your gun and watch the gauge on your pump to see where it stops moving up quickly and then check to see if that pressure matches your gun's pressure gauge. If it doesn't, run with the lower number until you can get more gauges to test against, or go to some place that does fills and ask them to check your gauge.

It can be tricky at first. There is another way, but I don't like doing it because it isn't that precise either, but it is definite.

[EDITED OUT ORIGINAL PARAGRAPH, IF YOU READ IT JUST FORGET IT]

This is much better advice than mine and I which I should follow lol.

 

[Bladefin]

The reasoning behind the slugs is at 2am when the yotes are making a racket I want to know the round is gonna go where I want it to. I didn't even buy any pellets. I guess it won't gut to try them though.

It stopped raining but it's a bit breezy. Think I'll set the table up and start with the 32 through 34 grain and see how they group.

 

[Bladefin]

Also,
Do like the Edleshy videos and nail some turf or make a backstop on one of those trees. I’d pic the thicc one to the right of the red bird feeder… throw some seeds and peanut out, hang a spinner target above it to for a convenient way to make sure you’re still on zero. Then set out the tripod and enjoy blasting the varmints that show up to the buffet.

There's a feeder slinging corn 4 times a day on the left side of the wall. No shortage of varmins

 

[Cantona256]

The reasoning behind the slugs is at 2am when the yotes are making a racket I want to know the round is gonna go where I want it to. I didn't even buy any pellets. I guess it won't gut to try them though.

It stopped raining but it's a bit breezy. Think I'll set the table up and start with the 32 through 34 grain and see how they group.

Oh yeah I forgot about your yote problem haha… slugs 100%… my suspicion is that 31/32 gr is probably the sweet spot with a factory block and plenum. It’ll do heavier for sure but I bet you could get the 32’s doing 900fps at or below 2500psi. That’s 58(ish)FPE and you’ll get like 30 or 35 shots a fill. FYI if you get the slug power kit the brass weight will make the gun louder, especially if you crank the hammer spring in on the quest for power. With the plenum as small as it is what the slug power kit has really done for me is improved efficiency. I tried jacking the reg way up and slamming the valve with the hammer but what I got was a loud gun that launched a 40gr slug really well but very inconsistently. 12-15 shots a fill too… now I have the reg at 2600(ish) and just kiss the valve with that brass weight. It’s doing like 4 less FPE but it’s whisper quiet, gets at least 25 a fill(confirmed this today and yesterday since it’s finally warmed up). It’s accurate in ways that almost don’t make sense to me.

For example: today I took my buddy out to show him my gun and preach the gospel of airguns to him. I was explaining that we had to re-zero because I ran out of the 30gr yesterday so there was no way the 35gr were gonna be accurate. But we saw a fat squirrel in a dead juniper so I said I’d give it a shot…. “It’s not tuned for this slug so I’m gonna miss..” lined it up, gave it a little bit holdover to account for the added weight and pulled the trigger. 59 yards cold bore and with a slug 5gr heavier than it was tuned for and my baby dropped that squirrel no problem. Idk why or how it works so damn well but it just does cuz I’m not a crack shot at all. Hell I even hit it in almost the same spot as the one from yesterday. Headshots are great but that spot just above the shoulder is another light switch.

 

[Bladefin]

I got about a half hour of shooting before mother nature started showering on me. That and yesterday was 85° and today didn't get into the 60's. I don't get these temps because the low is coming from the south and all the rain is coming from the Gulf of America.

I fired about 30 shots and I fell off the reg, 10ish from the deck last night in the mix. I was having so much fun I was forgetting to look at the cheap Chinese chrono fast enough most of the time. I can see and upgrade coming soon.
I hooked up the compressor and upped the pressure from factory to 2500ish. Go out to shoot some more and the wife had let the dogs out. By the time they went back in and I was getting set back up to shoot it started sprinkling again and hasn't stopped.

Here's how it did in the short time I had. Top are h&n 34 and going lower was Apollo 33, followed by h&n 32 and 36 on the bottom.


I didn't touch the scope. The 32's grouped the best on stock. The h&n's were all from the .249 sample pack. Didn't get a chance to fire any of the regular .25's other than the 33's.
Beyond upping the pressure I moved the scope 8 clicks left but never got to fire a shot.

@Cantona256 I think we're on the same page. I'm thinking 32 to 34 grain is what I want to setup for. Which is why I upped the psi. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a chance to do some more shooting, but it's looking like it will be after work mid-week before this weather will pass.

 

[Cantona256]

That’s good shooting bro! Glad you got to get out there. The 32’s look real good for sure. You probably have them going at a good speed. With reg at 2500 I reckon they are right around 900-910fps. Especially considering how tight those groups are… here’s what’s funny though. Start playing with the hammer spring, just a little touch at a time and you will find that all of those groups will tighten up.

I’m sticking with 30gr and 31gr Franco slugs. The 31s will be for windier days for now. I’m so excited for you to get more shooting in and to get some hunting. Hunting is always fun but something about shooting them with slugs just hits different. I never cared much about “long range” until I started shooting critters at 50+ yards. Even more when 60+ yards feels easy. Now I just bought a fancy new scope so I can shoot 100+ yards more easily and record it…cannot wait to hear more about your gun and tuning it.

 

[Bladefin]

I'm a bit frustrated. Not with the gun, other than the slugs falling back into the action if your not really careful loading.

I haven't shot through a scope much in 15yrs or more. Been mostly shooting hand guns with a red dot. My eyes have changed a lot in that time. No line bifocals really seem like a no go. And being right handed & left eye dominant makes it worse. So, with my glasses on the reticle is blurry, with them off it's better but not great.

The gun really seemed to like the Apolo's the best along with the H&N .25 in 32 grain. The 2500psi really helped. Low 860's & high 860's respectively. I'll post the averages in a bit. I was able to put a few Apolo slugs in the same hole at 25yrds. At 50yrds I didn't do to good. I know it's me and not the gun. Moving to 50 also put me on uneven ground the shoot from, so it wasn't comfortable. My biggest issue going forward will be my eyes. I think at 15 to 35yrds I'll be fine. Unless it's just squirrels, that ain't gonna cut it.

I need to do some research, maybe this Althon scope just won't be the tool I need for this gun.