NRL NRL22 Rifles and what is needed.......

[Woogie_man]

Hey guys,


As many know from not only this site, but I have been looking for an air rifle to use for my local NRL22 matches. I already have a very nice custom 22LR rifle that is one heck of a shooter, but as we know being on an AirGun site we like things that go boom by air power. So I have been on the search for a dedicated airgun to use once a month. I did have a rifle I built up when I was at NAC, that was a shop gun and I didn't really have a say on what rifle to use. Had to use the brand the shop was selling and had to go that route. So the rifle was an FX Panthera 700mm in 22 caliber. I tuned the rifle to shoot the Javilin 36 grain slugs at 950fps, and I was getting under 1" groups at 100 yards. Also did quite a bit of internal work and custom modifications to the rifle to get it to shoot so well. But after leaving the company I obviously had to give the rifle back.

So this is where my search comes in.......

Now my 22LR build is built on a custom action that has a Remington 700 foot print, 22" Bartlein barrel, 2 stage trigger that breaks around 3 oz. This would be IDEAL for an airgun to have a build like this. But that isn't possible with the space needed for the air source and mechanical parts. BUT here is a list of things that at least in my mind, are REQUIRED for a decent NRL22 rifle.

Heavy barrel, no liners or flimsy loose barrels!!
Arca rail full length of the barrel
Enough power to complete an NRL22 stage, typically 12 shots unless a match director has a custom stage
Able to push larger slugs at high power to help fight wind drift
Fully adjustable trigger, pull weight, single or 2 stage, trigger shoe placement ( think like an Anschutz trigger )
Adjustable power levels
Low profile gauges to not get snagged on barricades
20-40 MOA rail built in
Easily removable and insertable magazine
Adjustable stock, length of pull and cheek piece
Ability to add weight to balance rifle as needed
Small forend to fit inside barricades and not smash scope or bottle
Barricade stop to prevent rifle from sliding into trigger guard, adjustable is great
Heavy!!! My 22LR is 18lbs with no scope or ammo, weight helps stabilize the rifle and makes hitting targets much easier

To me in my mind these things would make a GREAT rifle. The Panthera while can be used and people do like it, the crap barrel system they have is an issue. Fx has been using the same flimsy barrel straw for quite a few years. Yes while the plenum is around the outer barrel and makes it extremely stiff but the barrel is still loose inside. You can tension the outer barrel all you want but it doesn't do much to the liner. My shooting buddy does have a Panthera and have helped him get it set up and he enjoys it greatly. While I don't like the Fx Barrel system, it can't be argued that they don't work. They have shown themselves to work for quite a well, and the system helped me take 5th last year at NAC. So yes it does work, I just like a more solid barrel.

So with the want list above, what guns do you guys think would fit most of that list.....OR...... what else would you guys add to the dream list?

 

[Danman]

Hmm maybe the new Scout Evo? They bragged how light it was at shotshow compared to the chunky Epoch but I'd bet it's still no featherweight. Very nice rail underneath, and protected gauges, and it looks mean! Still running electronics though but possibly not a deal breaker? American made, decent size bottle, and I'd bet plenty of power/accuracy knowing those guys. I don't think there are no real 'numbers' on it yet though? I for one am curious!

 

[Woogie_man]

That is still one heck of a tall gun. If the bottle wasn't under the barrel it would be better

 

[pan60]

i would be very suprized if we dont see more companies experimenting with the bottles around the barrel.
i am not sure of the draw backs bit that on the surfice looks to be the way to go for slimng the gun down

 

[Woogie_man]

While that is a cool concept I am still trying to understand the system. There isn't much volume there, unless you have a comically large barrel. Unless the barrel is quite thick it seems you would get barrel flex from the pressure change.

Though if you could ge the system to fit in a remington 700 footprint, there are a TON of stocks and chassis that you could use.

 

[pan60]

yea i dont know just seem like an idea. i think its about just how much pressure and not about shot count. that is to say enough but not 30 40 shots.
i would think chatging it would be a non issue but thats all relitive

 

[Woogie_man]

Agreed.

I have been looking at the Karma RedPanda as well and that looks to be an ideal rifle. The one I was able to play with when I was at Donnies shop last year was the Benchrest version and it was solid and well built. The PRS version is the one I am looking at, but there is no release dates for the rifle yet! I know the guys are over in Europe right now at IWA, so HOPEFULLY they will more information about the rifles after they get back. Hoping they will have a few of the rifles soon, and if not to expensive would be interested in grabbing one of them.

 

[pan60]

have you heard any news on how Tom is coming with getting set up in the new location?
or when we will see some of the new barrels

 

[Woogie_man]

Have not as of yet. Sent him a message asking about them, but assuming he is to his moving. They will come out, though Tom isn't going to release anything that won't work. With the new 22 barrel size we also need NSA to get the slugs out and in enough quantity. Otherwise the barrel does you no-good without ammo.

 

[pan60]

not sure i would want all my ponies on one slug manufacurer but?
i would not think a slug barrel would be only good for say the NSA, or am i missing sumthing?

 

[Woogie_man]

The bore diameter will be 224 verses 216-218 that they currently are. The slugs will be more in line to what current 22lr rounds are.

 

[pan60]

The bore diameter will be 224 verses 216-218 that they currently are. The slugs will be more in line to what current 22lr rounds are.

okay that makes sence.
so you think we will see ofther companies producing that size slug?
i would love a slug gun but i just dontthink the dust has settled on that can of worms.
or at least not from what i am understanding.

 

[Woogie_man]

If the gun is able to produce the power needed to push those sized slugs it would be great. Could open up the possibility of using already manufactured 22lr barrels. You could get some high quality barrels like benchmark, Lilja, bartlein, and others. This will also mean SOLID barrels. Heck the barrel on my match gun is 1.20" diameter, and is quite heavy. Which helps with the balance of the rifle.

 

[pan60]

when i was a teen ( many many moons agos ) i traded for a .22 that had a big barrel like that it was a single shot bolt action i wanred it for squirrel hunt but it was to heavy and i sold it to a guy that lived next door. he wanted he would that gun was not made to hunt with sell it to me and go buy you a good hunting gun.
no clue what it was but i carried in the woods a couple time and was glad to let it go.

well i have high hope for Toms new line of HPS guns and i think we will see higher efficiency from companies it only stand to reason. i dont think we and at the top just yet.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

Here's a simple and economically efficient solution for a small, heavy, accurate package: Have Tom machine the Evol chassis and new m-lok rail out of steel and parkerize it. All he should have to do is change the machine's feed rate according to the material, and he could take out machining steps made to lighten the thing (like those pockets on the outside of the m-lok rail). Going from aluminum to mild steel adds around 180% your gun's chassis weight and keeps it's balance. If it isn't heavy enough using the heavy Magpul PRS butt stock, maybe a slug of lead into the buffer tube and hollow hand grip for an additional 4 lbs.

 

[Woogie_man]

That is an awesome idea!

Though not sure Tom has the time with the new products coming out.

 

[pan60]

Here's a simple and economically efficient solution for a small, heavy, accurate package: Have Tom machine the Evol chassis and new m-lok rail out of steel and parkerize it. All he should have to do is change the machine's feed rate according to the material, and he could take out machining steps made to lighten the thing (like those pockets on the outside of the m-lok rail). Going from aluminum to mild steel adds around 180% your gun's chassis weight and keeps it's balance. If it isn't heavy enough using the heavy Magpul PRS butt stock, maybe a slug of lead into the buffer tube and hollow hand grip for an additional 4 lbs.

i dont like it.
makes the gun to heavey for the rest of he world. maybe offeraed as a option? but, he could or really any local machine shop could make what ever someone wants for a rail and add all the weight you want?
theres a LOT of small machines shops around the world that do small jobs all the time.
not all shops are CNC shops need minimum orders on a run

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

i dont like it.
makes the gun to heavey for the rest of he world. maybe offeraed as a option? but, he could or really any local machine shop could make what ever someone wants for a rail and add all the weight you want?
theres a LOT of small machines shops around the world that do small jobs all the time.
not all shops are CNC shops need minimum orders on a run

Apologies if my post was not clear. I'll quote myself, then explain what may not be understood by my post.... "Here's a simple and economically efficient solution for a small, heavy, accurate package: Have Tom machine the Evol chassis and new m-lok rail out of steel and parkerize it."

The post was meant to convey that commissioning Tom to machine a heavy parkerized steel chassis, as the original designer of said chassis, with all the cnc cutting programs makes the most economic sense for all parties. The current Evol owner or even potential new owner wanting to use a heavy NLR22 match-grade airgun in the rugged, accurate Evol platform would be the customer. It would not "makes the gun to heavey for the rest of he world" as you put it because the rest of the world is not the customer. Only a select few types of customers (benchrest and the NLR22 folks) would want to commission this option, and probably buy only the chassis to swap out the aluminum or wood parts off of their existing gun. To have a local machine shop accurately measure and design it, then create a cnc program with tool paths and cutting processes, and then cnc machine the two chassis parts, would be highly cost prohibitive for a one-time job where only a dozen chassis would be built and sold.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

That is an awesome idea!

Though not sure Tom has the time with the new products coming out.

Yeah, he is busy for sure. With more than a few interested parties (Benchrest competitor's and NLR22 competitor's) it should be easy enough for him to do and where he could make a profit too. I'd support this option to get a heavy chassis in the new HPS Evol's coming out.

 

[pan60]

Apologies if my post was not clear. I'll quote myself, then explain what may not be understood by my post.... "Here's a simple and economically efficient solution for a small, heavy, accurate package: Have Tom machine the Evol chassis and new m-lok rail out of steel and parkerize it."

The post was meant to convey that commissioning Tom to machine a heavy parkerized steel chassis, as the original designer of said chassis, with all the cnc cutting programs makes the most economic sense for all parties. The current Evol owner or even potential new owner wanting to use a heavy NLR22 match-grade airgun in the rugged, accurate Evol platform would be the customer. It would not "makes the gun to heavey for the rest of he world" as you put it because the rest of the world is not the customer. Only a select few types of customers (benchrest and the NLR22 folks) would want to commission this option, and probably buy only the chassis to swap out the aluminum or wood parts off of their existing gun. To have a local machine shop accurately measure and design it, then create a cnc program with tool paths and cutting processes, and then cnc machine the two chassis parts, would be highly cost prohibitive for a one-time job where only a dozen chassis would be built and sold.

okay i asumed you ment change the gun. i missed what you ment.
i was saying a small machine shop not a CNC shop.
i run a small shop ( well retired now ) and a bottom rail is not a big deal for a small shop to make. if they cant measure a couple whole placments and layout a profife then their not much of a machinest.
i make microphone part from tie to time so i promis a smaller shop running manual machine could make those.
but at last i agreed 100 % it would be a LOT easier cheaper and better if TOM offer a solution and i do beleave he is trying to? but i wont speak for him as i honestly dont know?