My comment got “altered or removed” from another forum. I LOVE HAM!!

[Luis Leon]

Haha looks like we’re not allowed to speak freely about brands in other forums. Thank you for being ok with it here Mr Archer . Why should we be silenced? If a manufacturer builds something and hypes it up only to be brought down to earth by regulator shooters why can’t we talk about it ? This is about the FX DRS. I sent the dude a message asking why it’s removed. I’m waiting on a response.

Respectfully request that you reconsider making your complaint an “AGN vs. HAM” thing… Michael is a fair minded man. Why use AGN to sell your wares, then come here on HAM to bash AGN? We are “one” air gunning “community” absolutely “zero” need to “divide our ranks”…

P.S. I highly valued “both”… And yes, I have have disagreements on AGN and in “life”… The bashing? Simply unnecessary and not constructive…

 

[Luis Leon]

i seldom go there anymore. he has removed my posts and he refuses to respond to pms.
even pms pionting out issue with the forum or asking for help.
so many people have told me about issue privetly but as long as people keep going there he will be there.
if Steven would get us a clasified section i would never go back over ther other than maybe someone referancing a thread

My experience has been different… Just PMed with Michael, as he called me out on some comments. And have PMed with him before … He strikes me as an earnest, honest man. Please, gentlemen keep to the high road and give the “benefit of doubt” to those you might misunderstand…

So you would “never” go back to AGN if HAM had a classifieds? But you go to AGN because you might “sell or buy” there? This whole thread is simply divisive, we have enough of that “divisiveness” in our everyday lives… Airguns are about fun and escape to the majority, why taint that. This thread should be locked.

P.S. To be transparent and open, I have reported this thread to the HAM editor over it unnecessary divisiveness…

 

[PasadenaMike]

My experience has been different… Just PMed with Michael, as he called me out on some comments. And have PMed with him before … He strikes me as an earnest, honest man. Please, gentlemen keep to the high road and give the “benefit of doubt” to those you might misunderstand…

So you would “never” go back to AGN if HAM had a classifieds? But you go to AGN because you might “sell or buy” there? This whole thread is simply divisive, we have enough of that “divisiveness” in our everyday lives… Airguns are about fun and escape to the majority, why taint that. This thread should be locked.

P.S. To be transparent and open, I have reported this thread to the HAM editor over it unnecessary divisiveness…

Thank you for this you have a point

 

[pan60]

My experience has been different… Just PMed with Michael, as he called me out on some comments. And have PMed with him before … He strikes me as an earnest, honest man. Please, gentlemen keep to the high road and give the “benefit of doubt” to those you might misunderstand…

So you would “never” go back to AGN if HAM had a classifieds? But you go to AGN because you might “sell or buy” there? This whole thread is simply divisive, we have enough of that “divisiveness” in our everyday lives… Airguns are about fun and escape to the majority, why taint that. This thread should be locked.

P.S. To be transparent and open, I have reported this thread to the HAM editor over it unnecessary divisiveness…

i have pmed Michael a number of time as i no longer get email and ask him to look into it and when i say a nuber of times i do mean that and not once has he responed not once. and i am sure many remeber the epic thread where some of my post where deleated and i was acuse of bacshing epic when in fact i was one of the few defending what they where doing.
so i have ZERO respect for Michael.
he does not have to explian himself me me as i dont care. but he has ignored me as well as sevral others i know.

 

[Farmplinker2]

In my limited experience, it seems a certain sort of troll will be tolerated way too much for making a post that gets locked down when someone else states the same question, sometimes in a manner more respectful than the trolls....

 

[FL22]

My experience has been different… Just PMed with Michael, as he called me out on some comments. And have PMed with him before … He strikes me as an earnest, honest man. Please, gentlemen keep to the high road and give the “benefit of doubt” to those you might misunderstand…

So you would “never” go back to AGN if HAM had a classifieds? But you go to AGN because you might “sell or buy” there? This whole thread is simply divisive, we have enough of that “divisiveness” in our everyday lives… Airguns are about fun and escape to the majority, why taint that. This thread should be locked.

P.S. To be transparent and open, I have reported this thread to the HAM editor over it unnecessary divisiveness…

Luis, no one likes a boot pressed against their throat whether it’s on a forum or in real life if you cannot see that within yourself, just look to human history. Your utopian dream sounds wonderful unfortunately it goes against our nature.

I ask you as a record full disclosure how many times has Mr. Archer or a moderator here admonished your words?

Currently for me, it has been zero.

 

[Danman]

I have looked to AGN for some info here and there and it seems a good forum from what I can see...and I spend enough time on this forum already. But in life (with anything!) if freedom of speech is traded in for political correctness I'm out. Fighting that in Canada alot right now, Freedom of speech is in the toilet, and that's not ok. Mindless bashing is silly too though, buuuut if it's true aka not just one guys experience and it's constructive I would think as a manufacturer they can take the concerns/complaints and fix the issues going forward. I'll give you an example: DEAR JSB your tins that your beautiful pellets comes in Suuuckk!! Yes that's bashing if you will but it's true, and most will agree. Jsb fessed up and said they are addressing that, new tins are coming soon. THANKS JSB!! If we all marched on with our mouths taped shut nothing would get better would it? I just don't know if I would complain about one forum on another.

 

[Luis Leon]

i have pmed Michael a number of time as i no longer get email and ask him to look into it and when i say a nuber of times i do mean that and not once has he responed not once. and i am sure many remeber the epic thread where some of my post where deleated and i was acuse of bacshing epic when in fact i was one of the few defending what they where doing.
so i have ZERO respect for Michael.
he does not have to explian himself me me as i dont care. but he has ignored me as well as sevral others i know.

Zero respect?!

Luis, no one likes a boot pressed against their throat whether it’s on a forum or in real life if you cannot see that within yourself, just look to human history. Your utopian dream sounds wonderful unfortunately it goes against our nature.

I ask you as a record full disclosure how many times has Mr. Archer or a moderator here admonished your words?

Currently for me, it has been zero.

“Within myself?” Boots on throats, utopian dreams? You don’t know me… I am old man who has seen and experienced good and bad. But your post makes the point…

I thought we came to these forums to speak about airguns…?

 

[FL22]

Zero respect?!

“Within myself?” Boots on throats, utopian dreams? You don’t know me… I am old man who has seen and experienced good and bad. But your post makes the point…

I thought we can to these forums to speak about airguns…?

The term “boots on throat” means to have your voice silenced usually in an authoritarian way.
“ within yourself “ i’m asking if you like to be treated that way.
The fact that you didn’t answer my question and your indignation makes my point. The answer is zero.

 

[Luis Leon]

The term “boots on throat” means to have your voice silenced usually in an authoritarian way.
“ within yourself “ i’m asking if you like to be treated that way.
The fact that you didn’t answer my question and your indignation makes my point. The answer is zero.

Not indignant and a super proud, pro America 1st citizen… I simply come on the forums to read about airguns… If some of you no longer like AGN? Simply stop posting there. And thanks for “splaining” the above… Am not fighting or arguing or attacking anyone here on HAM or AGN… Be well!! We understand it’s American to disagree…,

 

[hameditor]

Well, I think we have had a good discussion here. Open and frank opinions - and maybe a couple of disagreements. That's OK, in my opinion.

Thank you all for your contributions.

Let's move on...

 

[PasadenaMike]

Well, I think we have had a good discussion here. Open and frank opinions - and maybe a couple of disagreements. That's OK, in my opinion.

Thank you all for your contributions.

Let's move on...

Agreed

 

[Soren Drost]

Well, I think we have had a good discussion here. Open and frank opinions - and maybe a couple of disagreements. That's OK, in my opinion.

Thank you all for your contributions.

Let's move on...

I agree as well ! In my opinion, issues on another forum should be addressed there and not here !

 

[pan60]

i popped a starling this morning, made me smile : )

 

[PasadenaMike]

i popped a starling this morning, made me smile : )

There ya go

 

[Oldspook]

I agree as well ! In my opinion, issues on another forum should be addressed there and not here !

While I completely agree with that sentiment, It does bring up a question... "How do you plan on doing that?" I have never been on a forum in my life where the owner tolerated public complaints. I know for darn sure AGN hasn't been any different.

But yeah, this isn't the place to hammer AGN or Michael. That is why I have a personally owned domain. If I want to complain publicly about something... I take it to my domain, post it, and take it down when I feel like it. oldspooks.com

 

[MountainSportAirguns]

When running a buisness (a forum) it's important to protect the assets, in other words don't bite the hand that feeds you. It's fortunate we have plenty of forums we can pick and choose to participate in.

 

[PasadenaMike]

When running a buisness (a forum) it's important to protect the assets, in other words don't bite the hand that feeds you. It's fortunate we have plenty of forums we can pick and choose to participate in.

Yes of course the man makes his living with these big sponsors it’s understandable. I can’t bad mouth stuff I repair at my work gotta pretend it’s the best there is.

 

[subscriber]

Well, it was the rule changes at AGN that motivated me to join HAM. Rather than looking for an opportunity to express unhappiness, I would like you to understand the extent of AGN's new policy. And, how my actions unintentionally "helped" precipitate those changes:

New AGN Policy: The reselling of any and all unmodified detachable commercial airgun moderators is banned on AGN, via their classified section. So, something that is sold, bought and used by airgunners in the belief that these products are legal is now considered illegal by AGN. Either AGN ownership knows of a law change, or are concerned about being held accountable for potentially illegal actions they did not commit. On top of this, all discussion about making or altering airgun moderators is now forbidden on AGN; including the sharing of images and of design files.

While the classified ban is telling, I am not connected to that. However, I am in part responsible for the attitude change towards moderators in general:

My Confession: I am guilty of designing custom airgun moderators and shroud inserts, and then showing the designs on AGN. My Avatar image here is of my Shorty muffler design for the Huben pistol. Apparently showing a section image of the spiral baffle inside contributed to the AGN rule change. On top of that I shared the STL file for this moderator, and a number of other more conventional looking ones.

The argument is that showing people the inside of an airgun moderator is helping them to make one for PBs. If someone is going to make an illegal PB device, everyone already knows about hardware store pipe and washers. AGN's underlying argument is to avoid blurring the line between airguns and PBs. While that sounds reasonable, that ship seems to have sailed, ballistically speaking, with big bore airguns. Taken to its logical conclusion, this could end up promoting a sub 12 FPE / FAC type legal distinction. But that is not what this is about.

The last straw for AGN was a poll about airgun moderator mounting threads, where someone suggested adding common PB threads. Anyone who makes an "airgun" moderator with PB threads, or adds an adaptor displays intent to break the law. In my opinion, they should face prosecution, without that having any bearing on the intended use by the rest of us, of airgun moderators that sport airgun attachment thread patterns. Certainly, I would refuse to do a custom design for any 3D printable moderator with threads that suggest illegal intent.

If the argument is that someone could add an adaptor using common hardware store parts, the counter argument seems to be that they could make a complete device from hardware store pipe and washers. And, if they adapted an airgun moderator or made a complete one for a PB (without legal permission), such individuals would be breaking the law. Not Huggett, or DonnyFL; or a custom airgun shroud or moderator maker, or designer.

If the images below violate the rules on this forum, I will gladly take them down. I emailed the HAM forum owner a few days ago to ask about the rules governing the discussion of custom airgun shrouds and moderators. After not getting a reply, I decided to join the forum anyway. Now, the question appears to be, does the HAM forum serve to "chum the water" for the sales of commercial airgun products only? Or does it also encourage the development of new ideas by mere enthusiasts, starting with custom designs and general tinkering; potentially resulting in new and improved commercial products in the future?

As my sharing of designs on AGN started with a custom short offset moderator for the Huben GK1 pistol, that is what I am sharing below. The reason I posted it on AGN was because I was approached by an AGN member to design this muffler for him. As I did it for free, I felt that sharing it with more interested parties should be OK.

The request was for a less than 3 inch long offset muffler, that would not block the open sights. The general shape was to compliment that of the Huben pistol. It would also enable snag free holster use; hence the slanted front end. With such a small volume to work with, my goal was hearing safe. According to the original requester, the performance exceeds expectations. Due to the odd outer shape constraining the internal space and volume, I elected to use a spiral shaped blast chamber, to "trap" air and slow its exit. Unfortunately, the development and testing information for this muffler are no longer visible on AGN.

Anyway, if the HAM forum would rather not see such designs, nor host discussions about how to make conventional looking airgun shrouds or moderators more effective, with improved grouping ability, then I won't post any more of them. On the other hand, if there is interest, without objection from HAM, I am willing to share more designs, so others may benefit from them.

Consider this my introductory post on HAM

 

[FL22]

@subscriber , that’s quite an entrance you’ve made.

So welcome to the HAMster wheel!! some folks keep up others hold on for dear life, and end up puking all over the walls.

I guess we’ll see what happens now that you’ve pulled the pin on this grenade.