Ghost BRK Ghost Review

I have the current valve.

Eventually AOA got me the current heavier hammer too.

I didn't like the shot cycle for .177, .20 and .22 with the heavier hammer.
So (I think I'm on the right page😅) putting your ghost back to 'what you would get today off the shelf if you bought an hp ghost' in the smaller 2 calibers, you found it a bit air wasteful/louder than necessary compared to your mods? I believe your results, I see the ghost as one of my favorite platforms and Brk bills it as a 'one system/size does all' - swap barrel sit at the bench and tune reg or hammer spring for 10 mins with ammo choice and off you go, but I think it probably leaves a bit of power off the top (bigger calibers) and probably a bit air wasteful on the smaller calibers. Lastly you found the lighter hammer you made - gave you a better fps adjustment range with your wheel then? Thanks again for the info!
 
So (I think I'm on the right page😅) putting your ghost back to 'what you would get today off the shelf if you bought an hp ghost' in the smaller 2 calibers, you found it a bit air wasteful/louder than necessary compared to your mods? I believe your results, I see the ghost as one of my favorite platforms and Brk bills it as a 'one system/size does all' - swap barrel sit at the bench and tune reg or hammer spring for 10 mins with ammo choice and off you go, but I think it probably leaves a bit of power off the top (bigger calibers) and probably a bit air wasteful on the smaller calibers. Lastly you found the lighter hammer you made - gave you a better fps adjustment range with your wheel then? Thanks again for the info!
My 177 HP is very quiet, I hear two things when I pull the trigger, the snap of the hammer on the valve and the thwack of the pellet hitting the target a split second later. The DonnyFL Koi moderator makes report barely noticeable. .22 def louder, but 1/4 as loud as my .22 Revere
tc
 
So (I think I'm on the right page😅) putting your ghost back to 'what you would get today off the shelf if you bought an hp ghost' in the smaller 2 calibers, you found it a bit air wasteful/louder than necessary compared to your mods? I believe your results, I see the ghost as one of my favorite platforms and Brk bills it as a 'one system/size does all' - swap barrel sit at the bench and tune reg or hammer spring for 10 mins with ammo choice and off you go, but I think it probably leaves a bit of power off the top (bigger calibers) and probably a bit air wasteful on the smaller calibers. Lastly you found the lighter hammer you made - gave you a better fps adjustment range with your wheel then? Thanks again for the info!

My Ghost was a bit of a complicated path...

Mine is one of the first couple in the US. It started life as a 177 Carbine. It came with the skeletonized (lighter) hammer. At one point an AOA rep told me he suspected that this lighter hammer was intended for the sub12fpe guns in the UK. But I've since seen hammers from sub12fpe guns and they're not this one. I've seen 5 hammer variations, either personally or photos online or that people have sent me. My light one weighs 455grains, and my heavy one weighs 545grains. The heaviest I've seen or know about weighs 592grains. The earliest hammers had a threaded rod in the nose that allowed the hammer "throw" to be adjusted, ie the distance it traveled was controllable. As far as I can tell, the hammers in current production Ghosts in the US are the 545grain variety (solid sides, no cutouts), without the adjustable nose/throw length.

For most US guns, the 545grain is probably the most appropriate for the power levels most guys are wanting their Ghosts to shoot.

I personally REALLY like the 455grain hammer, but it's place to shine is mostly under 35 or so fpe. I feel the shot cycle is more crisp with the lighter hammer and conservative fpe output. I would not want the 455grain hammer if I was mostly running my Ghost in the 35+fpe range, as a .20 or I'm the 45+ fpe range as .22. Even to get to 35 fpe as a .20, my little hammer needs 38grains of weight added to it, which is how this discussion started. And the 38grains made the .22 go from a 40fpe gun to a 52foe gun.

I'm not sure how a "standard" 545grain hammer responds to adding weight to it, but based on what only 38grains does to my light hammer, more oomph could probably be had by only adding a relatively small percentage of weight. This would mostly be for someone pushing .30s, .25s, or heavy .22 slugs even.

There's also the question if efficiency. There's some overlap between the effects of adding hammer spring preload and adding hammer weight. Educated guess is that current production Ghosts could be customized to the owners desires and tolerances for cocking effort and shot cycle, via toying with hammer weights. Ie, reduce the cocking effort by adding more hammer weight, and keeping fpe output where the owner wants it. Yes, this is for the sickest and most afflicted tinkerers amongst us, but worth it, for those who care enough to experiment.

The lighter weight hammers biggest benefit, to me, is a snappier, more crisp shot cycle. Again, at the fpe output I'm after with a .20.

The hammer weight concept is simply another way to customize the Ghost to the owners wants, needs, and preferences.
 
Yes I remember reading way back that yours was special and almost a pre-production ghost. Blows my mind that there are that many (or more?!) hammers out there for it. Loving the updates, i still take it with a grain of salt in that I want the .22 very much so, and the .20 is of course your custom and (superbly performing) baby. I do pity the sub12 people in this regard for lack of tuneability 😆. I really don't feel they get all that they pay for, for such a cool capable platform. Your shooting .20 slugs and pellets out of the same barrel right? Can I ask what your twist is on it?
 
Yes I remember reading way back that yours was special and almost a pre-production ghost. Blows my mind that there are that many (or more?!) hammers out there for it. Loving the updates, i still take it with a grain of salt in that I want the .22 very much so, and the .20 is of course your custom and (superbly performing) baby. I do pity the sub12 people in this regard for lack of tuneability 😆. I really don't feel they get all that they pay for, for such a cool capable platform. Your shooting .20 slugs and pellets out of the same barrel right? Can I ask what your twist is on it?

Yep same barrel, slugs and pellets. Standard twist rate Lothar, so 1:17.7.
 
I went digging....that 38grain hammer weight was worth about 100fps with the .22 MRDs in the .22 HP barrel.
View attachment 4811
So...still thinking...while the spring will deliver the same energy, the heavier hammer will have less velocity, but higher momentum when it hits the valve...and will require more force to de-accelerate/stop it...so at this point I am thinking the heavier hammer interacts (requires more time) for the valve to stop it...thus the valve is open slightly longer...and maybe slightly more....my buddy has a PhD in MechE...going to hit him up today ...this is the, for me, the unintuitive concept of momentum vs kinetic energy vs force ...they are not "the same"...
 
So...still thinking...while the spring will deliver the same energy, the heavier hammer will have less velocity, but higher momentum when it hits the valve...and will require more force to de-accelerate/stop it...so at this point I am thinking the heavier hammer interacts (requires more time) for the valve to stop it...thus the valve is open slightly longer...and maybe slightly more....my buddy has a PhD in MechE...going to hit him up today ...this is the, for me, the unintuitive concept of momentum vs kinetic energy vs force ...they are not "the same"...

Yes.

This concept of changing hammer weights around for desired effect is not new. Guys have been making hammers for their PCPs from various materials for longer than I've been involved in airguns. Delrin, aluminum, brass, steel, fluted, hollow, etc etc etc. And all to tweak what we're talking about here....how fast it travels, how far it travels, etc, essentially changing how much energy it imparts on the valve stem, or possibly, how those changes affect the interaction between valve stem and hammer strike.
 
Yes.

This concept of changing hammer weights around for desired effect is not new. Guys have been making hammers for their PCPs from various materials for longer than I've been involved in airguns. Delrin, aluminum, brass, steel, fluted, hollow, etc etc etc. And all to tweak what we're talking about here....how fast it travels, how far it travels, etc, essentially changing how much energy it imparts on the valve stem, or possibly, how those changes affect the interaction between valve stem and hammer strike.
It really does get involved when pushing to the nth degree doesn’t it
 
I've yet to find the bottom of the rabbit hole. 😁
I was talking with the guy doing my barrel yesterday and as we pulled the shroud off he suggested I experiment with how tight it was on the o rings ( it was very tight) as he thought that could be the reason for my 2 or 3 short flyers in a mag dump @ 100
 
I was talking with the guy doing my barrel yesterday and as we pulled the shroud off he suggested I experiment with how tight it was on the o rings ( it was very tight) as he thought that could be the reason for my 2 or 3 short flyers in a mag dump @ 100
Ok, that confuses me....in that if the barrel-shroud is the same from shot to shot...how does it being too tight cause some fliers....as they were shot under the same conditions as the non-fliers, no? I thought fliers had 4 potential components not counting me shooting them.... 1. diff weight 2. diff head size 3. damaged skirt. 4. inconsistent shot cycle...or any combo of the 4 [inconsistent shot cycle: different valve response for the same setting, shooting very quickly thus lower plenum pressure for the next shot, etc]
tc
 
Here's some food for thought....

Pulled this out of a tin of JSB 10.34 a couple years ago. FX labeled tin, for those who may care to know.
Screenshot_20240222-102255.png

Decided I needed to see what was inside this creature, so razored it in half to find this.....
Screenshot_20240222-102309.png


The void/cavity was visible from the outside on this one, but how many pellets have air pockets in them like this and seem perfectly normal on the outside? Dang sure isn't gonna fly very well if it did.
 
I was talking with the guy doing my barrel yesterday and as we pulled the shroud off he suggested I experiment with how tight it was on the o rings ( it was very tight) as he thought that could be the reason for my 2 or 3 short flyers in a mag dump @ 100

I'd sure think tight is MUCH better than loose in this situation.

The oring in the air stripper that the shroud centers on is tight in my .20 Ghost and that gun doesn't have an issue with random flyers.
 
Ok, that confuses me....in that if the barrel-shroud is the same from shot to shot...how does it being too tight cause some fliers....as they were shot under the same conditions as the non-fliers, no? I thought fliers had 4 potential components not counting me shooting them.... 1. diff weight 2. diff head size 3. damaged skirt. 4. inconsistent shot cycle...or any combo of the 4 [inconsistent shot cycle: different valve response for the same setting, shooting very quickly thus lower plenum pressure for the next shot, etc]
tc
His point of view was if the barrel did move slightly compared to the shroud it might changed harmonics till it returned to its normal position
 
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@Solo1,

Are the flyers in question .22 Monster RDs by chance?
IMG_4100.jpeg

This type of behaviour is what gets me and its often much larger. This is a 50 yd br target i shot on a really calm day. Its a mag dump @ 100. Now i get that a slight breeze would be enough to be moving the group of 4 below the bull down that far from the group of 4 above the bull but how do you account for the outer 3 shots. This was to shot in probably about 1 minute or less. And like i said i frequently get larger of the same types of groups usually under 2-21/2 inches but the same general looking thing. This is also with pellets weighed to .1 grain although my scale lies a bit i think so actually their probably within .2 or .3 grain
 
This type of behaviour is what gets me and its often much larger. This is a 50 yd br target i shot on a really calm day. Its a mag dump @ 100. Now i get that a slight breeze would be enough to be moving the group of 4 below the bull down that far from the group of 4 above the bull but how do you account for the outer 3 shots. This was to shot in probably about 1 minute or less. And like i said i frequently get larger of the same types of groups usually under 2-21/2 inches but the same general looking thing. This is also with pellets weighed to .1 grain although my scale lies a bit i think so actually their probably within .2 or .3 grain

That type of 100 yard group looks very familiar.

.22 Monster RDs.
 
Bloomin shotgun pattern. 😯 Consistently off is one thing, but...how wide of a target is that? 2 1/2inch groups @ 100 ain't baaaad, that's a dead starling 6 out of 11 shots? Looks like my brother's 350 magnum .177 groups @ 40/50y. But I have never shot out to 100 yet myself. I say when those new Mrds are back in stock get a tin of each and retest, and of course... post results! 👍😊 Does your ghost refill the plenum pretty quick after each shot? I recall Tec had his reg cranked up and had to wait a few extra seconds for it to refill between shots.
 
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Bloomin shotgun pattern. 😯 Consistently off is one thing, but...how wide of a target is that? 2 1/2inch groups @ 100 ain't baaaad, that's a dead starling 6 out of 11 shots? Looks like my brother's 350 magnum .177 groups @ 40/50y. But I have never shot out to 100 yet myself. I say when those new Mrds are back in stock get a tin of each and retest, and of course... post results! 👍😊 Does your ghost refill the plenum pretty quick after each shot? I recall Tec had his reg cranked up and had to wait a few extra seconds for it to refill between shots.
Well thats a mag dump 11 shots in under 1 minute ? In the middle thats 8 shots 2 groups of 4 the outside edge of the green is 2”.
That top group of 4 is aprox 1/4” ctc the bottom group of 4 is aprox 5/8” ctc. This is why 5 shot group’s don’t really mean a thing when testing for consistency
 

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