Blackwolf Blackwolf Pricing. Help me with the math.

[Peskådot671]

I'm a little confused with the pricing for the different barrel lengths and configurations. Can someone check my math because the math ain't mathing.


For the walnut tube version, the prices off AOA's website are the following:

- 17 inch version is $2,899.99
- 23 inch version is $2,999.99
- 28 inch version is $3,199.99

The cost difference between the 28" and 17" version is $300.00. 28"-17"=11". $300.00÷11"=$27.27 per inch. If you were to go from the 17" to the 23" version, the cost difference is $100.00. If you subtract 23"-17"=6". $100.00÷6"=$16.66 per inch. If the forend and tube cylinder are the same size, you would be only paying for the additional length for the barrel and shroud. I don't get it.



Now for the Grey Laminate tube version, the pricing is as follows:

- 17 inch version is $3,185.99
- 23 inch version is $3,199.99
- 28 inch version is $3,449.99

The cost difference between the 28" and 17" version is $264.00. 28"-17"=11". $264.00÷11"=$24.00 per inch. If you were to go from the 17" to the 23" version, the cost difference is $14.00. If you subtract 23"-17"=6". $14.00÷6"=$2.33 per inch. If the forend and tube cylinder are the same size, you would be only paying for the additional length of the barrel and shroud. I don't get it. Also, it looks like the Grey Laminate version is actually cheaper than the walnut version per inch.


Now for the chassis version, the pricing is as follows:

- 17 inch version is $3,294.99
- 23 inch version is $3,494.99
- 28 inch version is $3,699.99

The cost difference between the 28" and 17" version is $405.00. 28"-17"=11". $405.00÷11"=$36.81 per inch. If you were to go from the 17" to the 23" version, the cost difference is $200.00. If you subtract 23"-17"=6". $200.00÷6"=$33.33 per inch. If the forend and tube cylinder are the same size, you would be only paying for the additional length for the barrel and shroud. I don't get it. The chassis version is more expensive per inch then the other two versions.

The pricing just seems all over the place. Help me understand. I suck at math. Love your airguns but this is just way off. If you look at FX, their different barrel/shroud length versions seem more structured.

 

[Solo1]

It’s a boat load of

 

[hameditor]

@DaystateAmerica - Can you please comment and/or explain? Thanks!

 

[Scriv]

I noticed the anomalies as well. Having been in retail I can only hazard a guess, but will not do so at this point. There seems to be enough conjecture flying about this rifle.

 

[AOA ROB]

Hello Ham.

I am happy to explain how we arrive at the prices of the different versions since I determine the pricing.

1. Our import cost from Daystate. Add shipping and duty tax, add liability insurance that covers the product and our customers. You would be wrong in assuming all importers insure their goods. You would be wrong and not covered if the product is defective. This establishes our landed cost.

2. I then put a small margin in the product for our distribution company. Very small. This pays for the sales staff and support nationwide for our dealers. This makes the brand available at your local shop.

3. A margin then goes on top of that dealer cost to make the rifle desirable for the dealers to stock and keep on their shelves. This is also smaller than you would expect and much less than dealers want. Just ask them.

4.Barrels and cost to make them are not linear to the length. Trust me I know with my experience in making barrels. The longer barrels have much more waste and discard rate. Harder to drill, ream, cut grooves and turn outside dimensions between centers etc.

5. Stock cost are not only controlled be material cost. Finishing cost, tooling, waste etc are all factors.

6. Market factors. I can tell you that the carbon gray guns are very underpriced so the entry into the platform is available to more people. Ask the dealer selling it. They will agree the profit on the gray carbon rifles is pathetic. It is not that the other models are overpriced it is just they have a little more juice in them for the retailer.

I hope this helps for a better understanding.

Rob.

 

[hameditor]

Hello Ham.

I am happy to explain how we arrive at the prices of the different versions since I determine the pricing.

1. Our import cost from Daystate. Add shipping and duty tax, add liability insurance that covers the product and our customers. You would be wrong in assuming all importers insure their goods. You would be wrong and not covered if the product is defective. This establishes our landed cost.

2. I then put a small margin in the product for our distribution company. Very small. This pays for the sales staff and support nationwide for our dealers. This makes the brand available at your local shop.

3. A margin then goes on top of that dealer cost to make the rifle desirable for the dealers to stock and keep on their shelves. This is also smaller than you would expect and much less than dealers want. Just ask them.

4.Barrels and cost to make them are not linear to the length. Trust me I know with my experience in making barrels. The longer barrels have much more waste and discard rate. Harder to drill, ream, cut grooves and turn outside dimensions between centers etc.

5. Stock cost are not only controlled be material cost. Finishing cost, tooling, waste etc are all factors.

6. Market factors. I can tell you that the carbon gray guns are very underpriced so the entry into the platform is available to more people. Ask the dealer selling it. They will agree the profit on the gray carbon rifles is pathetic. It is not that the other models are overpriced it is just they have a little more juice in them for the retailer.

I hope this helps for a better understanding.

Rob.

Thank you for the excellent, honest and detailed explanation.

 

[Scriv]

Hello Ham.

I am happy to explain how we arrive at the prices of the different versions since I determine the pricing.

1. Our import cost from Daystate. Add shipping and duty tax, add liability insurance that covers the product and our customers. You would be wrong in assuming all importers insure their goods. You would be wrong and not covered if the product is defective. This establishes our landed cost.

2. I then put a small margin in the product for our distribution company. Very small. This pays for the sales staff and support nationwide for our dealers. This makes the brand available at your local shop.

3. A margin then goes on top of that dealer cost to make the rifle desirable for the dealers to stock and keep on their shelves. This is also smaller than you would expect and much less than dealers want. Just ask them.

4.Barrels and cost to make them are not linear to the length. Trust me I know with my experience in making barrels. The longer barrels have much more waste and discard rate. Harder to drill, ream, cut grooves and turn outside dimensions between centers etc.

5. Stock cost are not only controlled be material cost. Finishing cost, tooling, waste etc are all factors.

6. Market factors. I can tell you that the carbon gray guns are very underpriced so the entry into the platform is available to more people. Ask the dealer selling it. They will agree the profit on the gray carbon rifles is pathetic. It is not that the other models are overpriced it is just they have a little more juice in them for the retailer.

I hope this helps for a better understanding.

Rob.

Thank you for the very detailed response. 4/5 are often most overlooked by consumers. I appreciate your candor.

 

[Woogie_man]

Have been seriously thinking about sending you my Ghost for a trade for one of these rifles lol I LOVED my RedWolf and regret selling it off a long time back. But the ability to have a mechanical rifle again is great.

I need to do more looking, but do these have the ability to shoot slugs decently as well as pellets? or is there a one or another type deal?

 

[Peskådot671]

Hello Ham.

I am happy to explain how we arrive at the prices of the different versions since I determine the pricing.

1. Our import cost from Daystate. Add shipping and duty tax, add liability insurance that covers the product and our customers. You would be wrong in assuming all importers insure their goods. You would be wrong and not covered if the product is defective. This establishes our landed cost.

2. I then put a small margin in the product for our distribution company. Very small. This pays for the sales staff and support nationwide for our dealers. This makes the brand available at your local shop.

3. A margin then goes on top of that dealer cost to make the rifle desirable for the dealers to stock and keep on their shelves. This is also smaller than you would expect and much less than dealers want. Just ask them.

4.Barrels and cost to make them are not linear to the length. Trust me I know with my experience in making barrels. The longer barrels have much more waste and discard rate. Harder to drill, ream, cut grooves and turn outside dimensions between centers etc.

5. Stock cost are not only controlled be material cost. Finishing cost, tooling, waste etc are all factors.

6. Market factors. I can tell you that the carbon gray guns are very underpriced so the entry into the platform is available to more people. Ask the dealer selling it. They will agree the profit on the gray carbon rifles is pathetic. It is not that the other models are overpriced it is just they have a little more juice in them for the retailer.

I hope this helps for a better understanding.

Rob.

Thank you for explaining the other factors behind it all. I was just trying to make sense of it and didn't know what else went into pricing. I appreciate your response.

 

[Scriv]

Have been seriously thinking about sending you my Ghost for a trade for one of these rifles lol I LOVED my RedWolf and regret selling it off a long time back. But the ability to have a mechanical rifle again is great.

I need to do more looking, but do these have the ability to shoot slugs decently as well as pellets? or is there a one or another type deal?

My understanding is that the 28" barrel is set up for slugs. A bit of research on the limited information that is out should verify that.

 

[Danman]

Have been seriously thinking about sending you my Ghost for a trade for one of these rifles lol I LOVED my RedWolf and regret selling it off a long time back. But the ability to have a mechanical rifle again is great.

I need to do more looking, but do these have the ability to shoot slugs decently as well as pellets? or is there a one or another type deal?

The real question...what would be faster? Get a slug barrel for your Ghost from Daystate or order a Blackwolf with the 28in slug barrel @SorenDrost verified they are the same barrels and I don't know much about Lothar Walthers production speed but man are these gonna be HOT . Anyone wanting a slug barrel for their Ghost/Alpha/Delta will be contending with the Black Wolf orders. I just hope they test them ALL before shipping them across the ocean....

 

[CTAirgunner]

After looking over all the models the other day , the carbon grey pricing thoroughly surprised me, in comparison to the other rifles it seemed drastically underpriced and as @AOA ROB said that is the case, the chassis rifles are sexy as hell and have all the right features though.

but I am still really intrigued with this new Titanium Valve system, some explanation on that would be great, if all the components are titanium, in that system, I could see where a lot of the cost is. Special tooling is needed to machine Titanium.

 

[Linehauler73]

Ghost plus barrel kit…..419. Hp barrel kit is like 589. Nuff said. IE their pricing makes zero sense

 

[pan60]

After looking over all the models the other day , the carbon grey pricing thoroughly surprised me, in comparison to the other rifles it seemed drastically underpriced and as @AOA ROB said that is the case, the chassis rifles are sexy as hell and have all the right features though.

but I am still really intrigued with this new Titanium Valve system, some explanation on that would be great, if all the components are titanium, in that system, I could see where a lot of the cost is. Special tooling is needed to machine Titanium.

I am unsure but did someone say the carbon era one didnt have the newer balance valve? maybe I misunderstood something along the way?

 

[CTAirgunner]

I am unsure but did someone say the carbon era one didnt have the newer balance valve? maybe I misunderstood something along the way?

Sub 12 rifles use standard style valve, the rest of them use balanced "style" valve (based on the linked video)... I was unaware these had a balanced "style" valve , style being the keyword. Only one person in airguns has gotten balanced valves right imo and I know we have chatted before that theyre not that intricate, etc, however, many have failed and they don't operate as consistently. If they are a true balanced valve I would need to see long term use and consistency, balanced valves keep me away.

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[pan60]

as with anything new I am Leary of just jumping in head first I like to hold off and and just see how they do for a bit first.
but I will admit I love the looks and styling of this gun and if he wife abandons her practice of buying looser lotto ticket and hits the big one the un gun is one the list of guns to get : )

 

[Smok3y]

Sub 12 rifles use standard style valve, the rest of them use balanced "style" valve (based on the linked video)... I was unaware these had a balanced "style" valve , style being the keyword. Only one person in airguns has gotten balanced valves right imo and I know we have chatted before that theyre not that intricate, etc, however, many have failed and they don't operate as consistently. If they are a true balanced valve I would need to see long term use and consistency, balanced valves keep me away.

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I have been wondering about the word choice as well on “style”. I will be curious to see more detailed videos beyond unboxing videos so we can find out more.

 

[Xindaris]

If you look at 22 lr match rifles with chassis the top ones start at $3000 and go to $6000. Considering these new airguns are probably more expensive to make I am not surprised at the price. That said I think all these companies are pricing their rifles where very few will be able to afford them.

 

[Scriv]

Reading some of the grousing I think that it is important to remember that Daystate does not build entry level rifles. They build top shelf rifles. I would like to drive a new Audi, but the price of entry is unacceptable to me. I don't complain about their cost, I just simply don't purchase one.

 

[ctshooter]

Sub 12 rifles use standard style valve, the rest of them use balanced "style" valve (based on the linked video)... I was unaware these had a balanced "style" valve , style being the keyword. Only one person in airguns has gotten balanced valves right imo and I know we have chatted before that theyre not that intricate, etc, however, many have failed and they don't operate as consistently. If they are a true balanced valve I would need to see long term use and consistency, balanced valves keep me away.

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What I would also add to this is that balanced valves are very On/Off - they can push a lot of air - they open fast and close fast - they excel in higher power applications. I think for lower power setups a standard valve setup is the better option.

I would not rule them out fur use though. The one in my RTI Mora is pretty sweet and it being an adjustable valve is even sweeter.